Ouch TiVo Q4 Results

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by MrSkippy53, Mar 1, 2011.

  1. Mar 6, 2011 #81 of 141
    tivogurl

    tivogurl New Member

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    Windows Media Center itself has some nasty bugs Microsoft hasn't bothered to fix. It is generally believed over at AVS that given the time they've been around they most likely won't be fixed. It is also generally believed that MS has for the most part abandoned the product.
     
  2. Mar 7, 2011 #82 of 141
    TroyB

    TroyB New Member

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    I have used TiVo since they came out with the S3 able to record in HD. Paid $800 for 2 TiVo's.
    At the end of this month I am changing to AT&T U-Verse not so much TiVo's fault more I am tired of dealing with Time Warner. I have one TiVo that is on lifetime and will probably hook up an Antenna to it and keep it phoning home to stay active the other one I will cancel my discounted monthly rate, kind of sucks though since I am on the $6.95 plan and will lose that if I come back.
    TiVo is partly to blame for me leaving though, all these other companies even the Cable Companies DVR's are starting to leave TiVo behind with DVR's that perform like a TiVo should with streaming and a reliable UI. It is as if they have stopped listening and don't care anymore.
    I will miss the storage space I have with the 1TB drive installed in my TiVo's but will enjoy all the things I gain (Streaming, VOD, Customer Service, not having to deal with Switched Video, etc.)
     
  3. Mar 7, 2011 #83 of 141
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    Both options would be nice. Then I would only have a couple of Premiers with ota capability and the rest would be cable only.
     
  4. Mar 7, 2011 #84 of 141
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    I've not used the uverse dvr but the other ones I've used/seen from Comcast, FiOS and satellite,still don't come close to what TiVo offers and It's reliability.
     
  5. Mar 7, 2011 #85 of 141
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    And your signature:
    I'm not defending Rogers, but aren't your signature numbers very misleading since they include the loss of DirectTV subscribers?
     
  6. Mar 7, 2011 #86 of 141
    slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    Does that really matter? The trend is obvious.
     
  7. Mar 7, 2011 #87 of 141
    BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Well-Known Member

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    Actually not true. A monopoly has to put out decent (but I admit not great) product. This market is an oligopoly, not a monopoly. So there is actually intense focus on features, since they can't use pricing to differentiate themselves. Tivo is kind of weird, since they're on the outside looking in. They only have part of the solution, and don't really fit in the current market, which is a big part of their problem.

    Another problem is that you need to compare the cable company's HD DVR to a VCR or a non-HD DVD recorder, which is what most people are using. When you do that, their DVR is a god send. Most people only record a few shows a week. They don't need or want to spend a lot on a high-end DVR. TWC even has a go-back feature that doesn't require a DVR, which satisfies most people's needs. Most people are fine with whatever their cable company has to offer.
     
  8. Mar 7, 2011 #88 of 141
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    I think it matters to not be misleading. I don't think exaggerating the trend is justified even when it supports your point of view. It's called spin and I don't like it. If there is even a weak argument that the D* subscriber losses are Rogers' fault then that might be another thing. Is there?
     
  9. Mar 7, 2011 #89 of 141
    ejasons

    ejasons New Member

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    I know of two people right now who would buy at least one, maybe two, if a TiVo could be used to record, with guide data, from clear QAM channels that provide accurate PSIP data.

    The argument against supporting clear QAM has always been that channels move around, etc. However, that argument is moot if there is accurate PSIP data (and our cable system here does seem to have that -- at least my television has no trouble knowing the channel numbers).
     
  10. Mar 7, 2011 #90 of 141
    orangeboy

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

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    I wouldn't think that implementing a feature that may work in one area but not in another would be very successful.
     
  11. Mar 7, 2011 #91 of 141
    nrc

    nrc Cracker Soul

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    I'm not sure why you don't consider the MSO numbers to be part of Roger's responsibility. While the original loss of DirecTV was outside his control, he has made MSO deals his primary focus since he came on as CEO. To date he hasn't generated enough MSO business to have any impact on the loss of DirecTV subs.

    I keep watching the trends thinking that maybe this will be the quarter when those MSO deals make a dent in the downward plunge of TiVo subscribers. It just hasn't happened. Maybe next quarter, but I've been saying that for a year.

    Meanwhile Rogers has focused on cost cutting on the standalone side and in the process has created a loss of subscriptions on that side of the house as well. It's easy to blame that on the challenges of competing the in digital cable market - I've made that argument myself. But TiVo started out as the iPhone of the DVR world and they've completely squandered that brand equity.

    Now add in mounting losses from increasing R&D costs from pursuing MSO deals that never seem to pan out and you have a perfect storm of failure.

    I've been easy on Rogers these past few years because I understood his strategy. But there's no escaping the fact that to date he has failed to deliver positive results for the company or its customers.
     
  12. Mar 7, 2011 #92 of 141
    lessd

    lessd Well-Known Member

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    Just a note about what your saying I was surprised that Windows 7 Media Center does provide the HD channel data for the clear cable channels that have PSIP without any problem, just done automatically. (I have a TV tuner but no cable cards in my computer)
     
  13. Mar 7, 2011 #93 of 141
    tivogurl

    tivogurl New Member

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    One wonders whether that was intentional on the part of the MSOs. String TiVo along with false promises until they bleed out.
     
  14. Mar 7, 2011 #94 of 141
    steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

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    With all the MSO deals, I wonder what the percentage is between the ones that USE TiVo hardware/software as default vs. those that only offer it upon request.
    Of those that only offer TiVo hardware/software upon request, does TiVo require them to advertise the availability?

    I can just see it...
    :rolleyes::D
     
  15. Mar 7, 2011 #95 of 141
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    :confused: The numbers in MediaLivingRoom's signature, which my post concerned, include D* and standalone cable TiVo subscriptions. Since, as you state above, the large D* losses were outside Rogers' control, these numbers present an exaggerated loss trend that reflects unfairly on Rogers by implication. The standalone trend is bad enough -- no need to pile on just to bash Rogers.
     
  16. Mar 7, 2011 #96 of 141
    Speedo123

    Speedo123 New Member

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    What will TiVo need to do to keep you as a customer next year?[/QUOTE]


    After waiting in vain 3+ years for Verizon to offer expanded DVRs, I finally dumped them for 3 TiVo Premieres which I'll expand when I recover from their initial cost. I find that these units offer considerably more functionallity than the the Verizon units. However, one of the things that the Premieres don't offer is the current channel and time display. A very nice and useful feature. As I recall, the DirecTV units I had prior to switching to FiOS also had this feature. Why doesn't TiVo? :confused: Another "nice to have" option would be the ability to easily get back to a being viewed recorded program from the My Shows menu. Might be I just don't yet know how to do it, but although the show is playing in the upper right box, there's no way to get it back to full screen without going through the menu to resume playing. Then it takes you to the point in the show where you hit the menu, rather than to where the show is now at. While these things won't make me leave TiVo, having them sure would make me a more satisfied user! :)
     
  17. Mar 7, 2011 #97 of 141
    orangeboy

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

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    Press the zoom key to get back to full screen.
     
  18. Mar 7, 2011 #98 of 141
    nrc

    nrc Cracker Soul

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    Those numbers include all MSOs, not just DirecTV. Rogers has placed a tremendous emphasis on MSO deals and he has failed to produce subscriptions sufficient to make any impact against the loss of DirecTV subscribers. That's as much his failure as the loss of standalone subscribers.

    Roger's record is what it is. Right now it's a failure. It can still turn around if some of these deals start to pan out, but if the loss of MSO subscribers doesn't start to turn around in the next few quarters then it won't be just forum posters calling for his replacement.
     
  19. Mar 8, 2011 #99 of 141
    navyman

    navyman Long Time Lurker

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    I've been an ardent Tivo user since 2000, beginning with the Sony SVR-2000, to the SD Directivos, then the last couple of years with the Tivo HDs (2 of them). I'm not sure how many other Tivo lovers have gone the route I have recently in switching to Directv, but it would not surprise me if a substantial number have done so.

    Comcast subscription rates, and Tivo sub costs on the Tivo HD's, drove me to consider and accept Directv's sales promotions which brought my monthly TV programming (and DVR recording) costs down significantly.

    The Directv HR-24 units work very well and do some things better than the Tivo HDs (i.e., integrated "now playing" lists, longer buffers, more interactive in many respects, PPV works, etc). The Tivo interface is definitely more intuitive, especially the peanut remote. We still mistake the DVR keys on the Directv remotes for the menu function keys. The HR-24s work very well for Whole house viewing with multiple tuners and they work without the need for bulky multi-cable multiswitches of the old days. It seems Directv has implemented a way to use one coaxial cable from the dish to feed multiple receivers without using traditional multiswitches. Made installation a breeze. Directv has come a long way in producing a competitive DVR compared to Tivo's offerings without costing an arm and a leg. Leasing of the DVRs is a smart business decision by Directv.

    I hope Tivo finds a way to compete, but it will require a different business approach.
     
  20. Mar 8, 2011 #100 of 141
    samo

    samo New Member

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    Would you prefer TiVo owned subs instead?
    Jan 2011 - 1,266
    Jan 2010 - 1,465
    Jan 2009 - 1,654
    Jan 2008 - 1,727

    Latest churn rate is 3% /month - that is about 35% per year.
     

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