Ouch TiVo Q4 Results

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by MrSkippy53, Mar 1, 2011.

  1. Mar 1, 2011 #1 of 141

    MrSkippy53 New Member

    Jan 27, 2011


    TiVo not look very good. It's clear that with the decline in subs, (21%) people are just not willing to go the TiVo route when it's really not much cheaper than renting a HD DVR from the Cable Co. In my case I save about a buck a month by owning a TiVo (12.95 sub plus 1.50 cable card rental). TiVos are not hitting the market with features that the other boxes don't have.

    What will TiVo need to do to keep you as a customer next year?
  2. Mar 1, 2011 #2 of 141

    MMaleto New Member

    Feb 11, 2011
    Lower sub prices....too much out there to be paying a monthly fee; just to record.
  3. Mar 1, 2011 #3 of 141

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    Apr 17, 2000
    A good start would be to finish the HD UI. It would also be nice if came up with a way to stream shows between boxes, rather then copy them, to work around the current copyright issues with MRV. A better UI, and desktop software, for music and photos would be cool too. (the current music & photos portions of TiVo Desktop are seriously lacking)

  4. Mar 1, 2011 #4 of 141

    ACABThomas New Member

    Jan 30, 2005
    I'd love to see Apple buy TiVo, replacing Apple TV, do a real integration with iTunes, and turn it into the one great media controller for everything. Seems like a great match, given the weaknesses of Apple TV and the strengths of TiVo.

    As for keeping me as a customer, I have a PLS, so I certainly hope they don't go under.
  5. Mar 1, 2011 #5 of 141

    bbydon New Member

    Feb 26, 2011


    Apple will never buy TiVo. Apple has no need for a DVR when streaming on demand is the future.
  6. Mar 1, 2011 #6 of 141

    johnsom New Member

    May 30, 2001
    Enable VOD with Comcast and fix the MRV restrictions.
  7. Mar 1, 2011 #7 of 141

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    Oct 31, 2007
    I don't know why anyone is surprised!

    Come onto this forum and read a few posts you will learn pretty quickly that TiVo is the worse possible investment. Our own user group is working as hard as we can to kill this product!

    I participate in a couple of forums - windows home server and a couple of car forums, everyone is angry and all the posts are bitter. It seems to be a trend and I am not quite sure why. Just realize when someone is considering an investment of this size - they generally do a little research.

    We are TiVo's best worst advocate!

  8. Mar 2, 2011 #8 of 141

    nrc Cracker Soul

    Nov 17, 1999
    Living in a...
    They did have an increase in new subs. The problem is too many old subs churning out. Rogers dismissed that as old SD boxes churning out, but if those boxes were being replaced with Premieres that wouldn't be an issue.
  9. Mar 2, 2011 #9 of 141

    nrc Cracker Soul

    Nov 17, 1999
    Living in a...
    I recently got a Palm Pre2 which I love. When I joined a forum for the device I was really surprised at how unhappy a lot of folks there are with Palm/HP. Lots to love about this device but the vocal minority are always there to turn the focus back to the shortcomings.

    I think this is a growing trend in the gadget community. Everyone is spec obsessed and unless they can defend their device as the best solution against all comers they're just miserable. "Yeah, this does what I care about better than anything else" is no longer sufficient.

    That situation is especially acute here at TCF. For one thing, TiVo has effectively abandoned any attempt to be a "community friendly" company. Sure, they'll still throw out a helpful comment or tweet from time to time. But TiVo has gone from a company that really showed how customer engagement on the Internet can work for a young company to a company that is nothing special in that regard.

    The way this forum is run may be in part at fault for that. TCF really isn't run by TiVo fans anymore. So it's not a particularly friendly place for TiVo fans, let alone TiVo themselves. Not saying that there's no room for complaints, just that there's no effort to manage the forum to keep them from overwhelming everything else.

    Then finally the biggest reason - TiVo has simply failed to deliver on the expectations that they themselves have created. Worse still, the gap is widening rather than closing. With every new feature that competitors or partners introduce that TiVo doesn't support TiVo falls further adrift of the ideal one box solution that they claim to provide. Even as someone who still finds TiVo the perfect solution as a DVR with occasional OTT video use, I can't really defend that.

    Add to that the fact that this is no accident. TiVo has limited resources and they've chosen to focus them on cable partners and law suits rather than paid subscribers. That may be the best thing for the company in the long run if it pans out, but it may sink them if it doesn't.
  10. Mar 2, 2011 #10 of 141

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

    Jan 2, 2004
    all of that pales over the one main stumbling block. When I bought into TiVo DVRs a significant nice factor was that I could install them without even giving the cable company a thought. No upgrade to a digital tier needed and no truck roll to have some 3rd party contractor tell me a bunch of BS while sort of making things work.

    Until that can happen with the digital broadcasts, TiVo has a problem - especially with SDV thrown in.

    The two items I see people thinking about TiVo glaze over on is the monthly sub and the fact the cable guy has to come and install something in the TiVo box a cable card that many have never even heard of. The monthly sub can be overcome by speaking in terms of box cost plus lifetime, but that upfront money can be daunting as well.

    And you simply do not know the value of a TiVo DVR until you have used a TiVo DVR
  11. Mar 2, 2011 #11 of 141

    dlfl Cranky old novice

    Jul 6, 2006
    Dayton OH
    I agree, and would ask: Where does the concept of a "TiVo fan" fit into this picture? That concept might have applied ten years ago when TiVo was a completely different company.
    I agree, although I'm having a hard time appreciating the special TiVo-only features when it's a struggle just to get it installed properly and keep it functioning reliably as a basic DVR. Internet VOD is the future and it can't come soon enough for me.
  12. Mar 2, 2011 #12 of 141

    jrtroo Chill- its just TV

    Feb 4, 2008
    Indeed. I love TiVo, I have an HD and Premiere, but for each of my devices I would have given up prior to set up if I had not known the benefit from my old S-2. Any extra step is a PITA, especially one with a truck roll and extra cableco charges, and is a turn off to the non-techie who just wants to use their box.
  13. Mar 2, 2011 #13 of 141
    Chris Gerhard

    Chris Gerhard Well-Known Member

    Apr 27, 2002
    I read complaints about Blu-ray at High Def Digest and High Def Forum and come here and read complaints about TiVo. I dropped DirecTV because I love Blu-ray and TiVo, and I use TiVo with OTA and the various internet options and think everything is great and just don't understand the complaints. Somehow the mentality is everybody expects something incredible for no money. I am in awe of what current technology has delivered at the price. I do see that TiVo is struggling financially, there just isn't a large enough market willing to pay the necessary price for the service although I sure don't see any alternatives being touted that are worth using instead of TiVo.
  14. Mar 2, 2011 #14 of 141

    larrs Movie Fan-Addict

    May 2, 2005
    Seems to me this is not unexpected and Rogers may be right. It is a combination of the many SD boxes moving out and the move to no longer be a hardware provider.

    If the DirecTivos come avaialable in April as expected and the other cableco integration starts ramping up as expected, we may not care about sub numbers- it would mean Tivo is going to be healthy.

    In my area, my provider just moved to all digital. I no longer have an SD box, but if I had, it would be worthless as I doubt the IR blaster from my old SD Tivo box would work with the required DTA, like most people I don't know, and even if it did, it would make my old DT box a single tuner which is unacceptable in today's market.

    Am I concerned Tivo couldn't convert more of those to Premieres? Of course, but again, hardware is not where they want to go.

    Tivo just needs me to be the head of new product direction- I know how the hardware they do keep needs to evolve. All they need to do is ask! :D
  15. Mar 2, 2011 #15 of 141

    T.DurdensOthr1/2 Space Monkey

    Jul 30, 2010
    FCC Mandated that if a Cable Provider offers self installs of any product or service it's now required they offer self installs of the cable cards. No truck roll even needed. Why pay for cable anyway? FREE HD OTA, Streambaby, Netflix, HuluPLUS and Amazon cover's the cable/satellite bill AND saves money. People buy tivo because they understand the value in the investment.
    People cancel TiVo because they're too lazy to do research and maximize the value of their investment and what they've paid for. Rather than reinvesting in a new system that can replace cable/satellite they get lazy and let the cable company ram the bills up their ____ with installation fees, lease and service fees for the dvrs, cable bills and headaches.. rather than getting the best DVR System ever offered in the history of TV that is self install and the most user friendly system available.. people just need to get a clue about what TiVo really is and what it can really do. Once people see that, they'll never have any doubts about the power of the company and the future it holds.
  16. Mar 2, 2011 #16 of 141

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

    Apr 19, 2004
    East Moline, IL
    Did anyone actually listen to the webcast? I got around to listening to the replay today, focusing more on the Q&A portion. A couple points that I heard, and will paraphrase:

    • R&D budget increased by $25 million
      • Increased engineering costs to implement the software into the MSO's different environments
      • Developing new features into the current retail and MSO hardware and software
    • Litigation cost increased by $7 million
      • Protect Tivo's IP
      • Pursue shareholder profits
    • Standalone retail devices are still viewed as valuable for development

    Of those items, the only one that mildly bothers me is the mention of litigation to increase shareholder profits. It's just a statement I don't understand. Unless it means TiVo is going to pursue those that don't represent a major competitive threat that are infringing on their IP. I'm looking at Microsoft MediaCenter or AppleTV here...
  17. Mar 2, 2011 #17 of 141

    lessd Well-Known Member

    Jan 23, 2005
    Unfortunately the easy alternative is the cable DVR box, I know I would never willing give up TiVo for the cable DVR but for most people the TiVo hassle factor is big, you rent a cable DVR, no cable cards, SDV, OD to concern your self with, also no hardware problems with free on sight service if the cable DVR box does go dead, many TiVo customers were with TiVo before HD when there was no cable DVR and we loved the TiVo UI, I had to use a cable DVR when I first got a HDTV as the Series 3 had not come out yet. It was better than nothing but i changed out to TiVo HD units after they came out. I don't think there is any easy answer for the TiVo stand alone (new) customer, and getting the HDUI finished will not make much of a difference except on forms like like this. For my less tech savvy friends I don't push TiVo because then I get the service calls/questions. If they use the cable DVR I get no calls about its operation.
  18. Mar 2, 2011 #18 of 141

    bschuler2007 Frustrated owner

    Feb 25, 2007
    I think alot of people thought Tivo would be the first, or atleast best, to integrate a DVR with internet functions (PPV, Youtube), and eventually compete with the best PC to TV media streaming boxes. Heck, Tivo even touted the "One Box to rule them all" slogan. Wich, yeah, they win TV.. but be fair.. Tivo sucks at Music, Internet videos, etc.

    So to some the gradual push to go more of a cable box subscriber route is a huge let down. Sure, they'll develop on the stand alone boxes.. but develop what? My guess is anything that would appeal to a cable company and cost us customers money to use. Home shopping app.. I am sure it on the way.. but really, how long does it take to make HD Screens!?!?!?

    So all in all.. I think alot of people are giving up on Tivo and finding other products that serve their main interests better. For me.. I could see giving up the DVR functions for a non-monthly fee'd media box to serve PC media files in the future.

    As for all the HATE posts.. the only LOVE post I ever saw on the internet was to Valve over Team Fortress 2...1000's of posts.. then a few months later.. Valve introduced the Team Fortress 2 in-game store. Most of those LOVE posters then joined the huge backlash against Valve.

    Moral of the story: posting HATE posts might get a company to change for the good. Posting LOVE posts might get a company to change for the bad.
    I'll take hate posts over love posts any day.
  19. Mar 2, 2011 #19 of 141

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

    Sep 19, 2006
    In the ATL
    Very good summation of the current situation and their problems here. I agree 100% with this. I can only add that, to me, they are shooting themselves in the foot by not actively maintaining a presence here, regardless of how much heat they take. When you don't explain almost anything you do (or don't do) to your customers, is it surprising that the vacuum will be filled by folks on a rant when you don't deliver what they are asking for? I don't think so.
  20. Mar 2, 2011 #20 of 141

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

    Jan 2, 2004
    I think you read too much into the corporate speak. They are just stating that they expect the litigation to yield a net positive ROI, not so much that they are seeing it as its own profit center

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