OTA only Tivo on the way

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by dave13077, Aug 25, 2014.

  1. Aug 25, 2014 #41 of 538
    bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    And I know another family exactly like you... One

    Do they exist? Yep, you guys sure do!
    Are they enough to create a market from? Maybe, I just do not know enough to make that call...

    Just my assumptions.
     
  2. Aug 25, 2014 #42 of 538
    BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, according to the below article, ~30% of Tivo users are OTA-only. Somewhat surprising if true. So, it's not an insignificant chunk of their userbase. But I think they can do much better to get more new OTA customers. IMO their status quo mostly only helps retain and monetize existing users.

    http://www.fastcompany.com/3034724/tivo-roamio-ota
     
  3. Aug 25, 2014 #43 of 538
    trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

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    If you are really paying $110 just for the tv portion of your cable bill why not cut back to a lesser package? Roughly $50 per month will get you a package with the major non-premium cable channels.
     
  4. Aug 25, 2014 #44 of 538
    spaldingclan

    spaldingclan Member

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    I'm one of those families and I know at least 5 of my friends who are all Upper middle class (household income of at least 80k) who cut the cord because even they think spending $150.month for TV is crazy
     
  5. Aug 25, 2014 #45 of 538
    bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    Obviously TiVo thinks there is some market for this product, otherwise they wouldn't have created the product. I just think the OTA crowed think they have more of a market presence then what is reality today.

    We know Cable has a large market segment and it cannot drive high enough volume for thinner margins that would equate to lower prices. If a cable based TiVo cannot drive those kind of margins, It is probable that the niche OTA market wouldn't fair any better.

    Frankly, I would not recommend this device for my OTA friends - it is too expensive and too limiting. I would push them to the TiVo basic with lifetime.
     
  6. Aug 25, 2014 #46 of 538
    trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

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    That is why you get a ~$50/mo tv package. What I noticed is every cord cutter post quotes only the most expensive cable tv packages. I never understood this.

    I never understood how the same person who pays for such an expensive cable tv package is the same person who then is perfectly happy with OTA and Netflix.
     
  7. Aug 25, 2014 #47 of 538
    Vesper

    Vesper Member

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    In my case, I'm about to get a new roof and having to remount the dish (DirecTV) has pushed me over the edge to try out OTA for cost savings. I think I might get the regular Roamio so I can get cable if I end up not liking the OTA setup.

    As an aside: Has the tuning adapter thing gotten easier since TivoHD? Back then it was problematic at times.
     
  8. Aug 25, 2014 #48 of 538
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    I don't know allot of people without cable/satellite but here are the ones I do know:

    • My Brother's family $100,000+ - mid 50s - has broadband
    • My Sister's family: $120,000+ - early 50's - has broadband
    • My Self; $80,000+ - late 50's - have broadband
    • A friend at work had to switch from OTA to lifeline basic (no STB just locals) due to reception issues - $100,000+ mid 50's - has broadband

    Many companies sell products that wouldn't support a company on there own or be viable on there own (a good example is the auto industry). Nothing different here, OTA DVRs are just part of a product line and while they might not be viable if they were the only product being developed/sold are viable via shared development & marketing costs.
     
  9. Aug 25, 2014 #49 of 538
    bacevedo

    bacevedo Member

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    I think you underestimate why people cut the cord in the first place and go OTA.

    We are a $150k+ household (in our early 40s) and are Tivo OTA only (barely even watch it) with 99% of our viewing coming from Netflix or Amazon Instant Prime via a Roku 3. The only reason I even have the Tivo Premiere is because I got in on the $99 lifetime upgrade. I was ready to ditch OTA all together and just use my TV tuner for the rare times I actually needed to watch something live. With Plex on my PC and the Plex channel on my Roku, I can get almost all network shows that I need via free streaming. The Tivo is just a backup now.

    Netflix now has more subscribers than HBO. At some point, there will be people who realize they don't need the cable subscription anymore and will switch to Amazon Instant Prime which now carries HBO shows. Sure, they might be older shows or a season or two behind, but that's not a problem for a lot of people if it saves them some money.

    Yes, we could cut to a "basic" cable package for $50 a month, but we still wouldn't watch any of the trash on cable TV. We cut it not only for cost, but because we don't really like or watch most things on cable TV. I don't want to pay for or subsidize channels that I will never, ever watch. Before we cancelled DirecTV, I looked on my Tivo to see which shows were being recorded. Only one was a subscription channel and was a kids show. Going to a lower package wouldn't have changed that and would have been a waste of money.

    The only thing I miss is sports, but you can't really get most of the sports channels on a basic cable package. You need to upgrade a few levels to get everything you need (i.e. Pac 12 network, all ESPN channels, all Fox Sports). My solution? I go to a relative's house who springs for cable or DirecTV and watch the games there with them. It's only a few times a year and is actually nice going out to be social and watch the game with family.

    I was surprised to see that Tivo released this product. I thought, good for them, until I read that it was $15 a month, for life. That's just idiotic in my mind. We'll see how many people are happy paying that amount for guide data. And for those that say you pay for more than just guide data, show me another normal consumer products company where I buy their product and have to pay monthly for software updates. Microsoft or HP don't charge me for Windows, Office, or driver updates. Neither does my mobile phone manufacturer or Roku.

    Bryan
     
  10. Aug 25, 2014 #50 of 538
    Vesper

    Vesper Member

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    As an aside, did they actually announce that it's $15 a month? All I saw is a link to the generic Service Plan page.
     
  11. Aug 25, 2014 #51 of 538
    jcthorne

    jcthorne Well-Known Member

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    I think its a Best Buy only deal as that is one of the few retailers that can initiate the subscription contract at point of sale just like they do for cell phones. IE you won't be able to buy this for $49 without the sub.
     
  12. Aug 25, 2014 #52 of 538
    jcthorne

    jcthorne Well-Known Member

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    Comcast has no packages with a cable card that total out to less than $50 all in. Including box/cc rental, outlet fees, HD tech fee, your mother in-law is ugly fee and a few others that try to look like taxes.

    We dumped pay tv nearly 10 yrs ago. Other than sports, we don't miss much.
     
  13. Aug 25, 2014 #53 of 538
    Peter G

    Peter G Member

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    I made a decision to cut the cord about 4 years ago. I have plenty of income but just did not see the value in Cable or Satellite at $100+ per month. Got a Roku and started streaming netflix. Set up an antenna in the attic for off air broadcast stations and upgraded to digital flat screens over a period of about 3 years. Decided to try Tivo when they offered an OTA promo of $10 per month.

    Has been a pretty good experience but Tivo box could be better (off air tuners a re just OK, no Amazon Prime). Point is that I am still happy with $10 monthly service. The Roamio OTA might be a good solution if they offered this same rate.

    (Think I paid $99 for first Premiere plus the $10 per month. Since then have upgrade to Roamio as the tuners are somewhat better. $175 for that one).

    Regards,

    Peter G
     
  14. Aug 25, 2014 #54 of 538
    trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

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    Who said less than $50? I said roughly $50. In Comcast's case, I see $60 before taxes/fees which might add up to another $10 to the cost. IF I say $70 regular price then that's still a far cry from the $110 to $150 on up that cord cutters like to quote.

    And i haven't factored in the discount you get on internet if you carry cable which is usually $5 or so.

    Nor have I factored in playing providers off each other. If you're fairly flexible and willling to switch providers every 2 years (assuming you can get at least 1 satellite and 1 cable provider in your area) then you can save substantial amounts of money on your monthly cost.

    I will change my roughly $50 figure to roughly $65 figure.
     
  15. Aug 25, 2014 #55 of 538
    trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

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    except you don't have to get a $100/month cable tv package.
     
  16. Aug 25, 2014 #56 of 538
    trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

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    The price at Cox that I think I found in your general area for a regular cable package is $72.99/month regular price. A bit high compared to similar packages in many other areas. Cox's website is so terrible though that you can't see what channels you get from the ordering screen ( at least I couldn't) and the ordering screen packages are named somewhat differently than the channels lineups on the Cox homescreen.

    But it appears $73 gets you at least ESPN1&2, FoxSports 1, Fox Sports Arizona, NBC Sports, Pac-12.

    You have to add in taxes/fees but subtract internet discount you typically get from carrying tv. Also if you're fairly flexible you can play the cable and satellit companies off each other assuming you could get either and this would save relatively substantial amounts of money on your total cable tv costs.

    If you never watched anything on cable tv then sure why get cable tv. I wouldn't get it either. That seemed to be part of what you said above.

    And obviously the way the content business works is if you want to wait for your content then you can pay less. That seems like a choice you've made.

    HBO content though you have to wait quite long for. The newest HBO stuff on Amazon Prime seems to be 4 yrs old. Alot of non-premium channel cable content seems to make it to Netflix or Amazon Prime in a year or so.

    And freeloading off relatives/friends for sports content is an option I guess.

    YOu subsidize and pay for lots of content that you don't watch on Netflix and Amazon Prime. SO I'm not sure that is much of an argument for moving from cable tv.

    And again I don't get how the person who gets the really expensive cable tv package can be the same person who then turns around and gets by on Netflix!???!??
     
  17. Aug 25, 2014 #57 of 538
    Aero 1

    Aero 1 Active Member

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  18. Aug 25, 2014 #58 of 538
    trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

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    Cute tweet from Tivo but no substance. Roamio OTA is DOA.
     
  19. Aug 25, 2014 #59 of 538
    eboydog

    eboydog Just TiVo'ing.....

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    I wonder if it will have a MAK and allow MRV transfers, I would hope they wouldn't remove that too but considering they aren't allowing MSD they aren't mrketing this to those with existing TiVo but seriously, if I was a cord cutter, the reason for such would be to cut not just "cords" but "costs" too and spending $180 a year wouldn't be my view of cutting costs.

    If they wanted to experiment with marketing such a Roamio, they could market the EXISTING base model Roamio that with OTA service subscription would disable digital cable permit OTA only and then require a lower than $15 mostly service fee. Seems that would be cheaper since it appears they already wrote custom software for the OTA, while making a version with stripped out hardware while less hardware components make it cheaper, there has to be some higher overhead to make such a version.

    I'm sure they are excited about this but even the Engadget article indicated this would be limited special edition and hinted that it might not last if it was not successful.

    A software limited base Roamio would make better sense especially if it's a trial run, which really as a model for their entire Roamio line wouldn't be a bad idea especially as software companies are employing this model, have a single common hardware box, each box requires a monthly fee, that monthly fee is variable depending on the features you need, cheapest rate would be for OTA only and from there, increases per what the users needs are such as MRV, Mobile Streaming, Mini Streaming, etc with the highest cost monthly package enabljng all features of the TiVo hardware box.

    Are they nuts? $15 a month with no Mini support? If they took Mini support I bet they took ethernet networking support out too which would means it's just a standalone OTA DVR that uses WiFi to receive it's guide.
     
  20. Aug 25, 2014 #60 of 538
    moedaman

    moedaman Member

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    WOW! Who do they think is going to buy this then? Most people cut the cord to cut costs. Sure they may get some sort of streaming package(s), but $17 for both Netflix and Amazon Prime per month is doable for those people because they're getting entertainment value. But those people are going to balk at paying $15 per month just for guide service. No lifetime for this product and not being able to use other Tivo products with it will kill it for sure.

    Maybe they're going to use this as an example to people to show that OTA dvr's aren't profitable for them (i.e. placate their cable partners)? Don't you love conspiracy theories? ;)
     

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