OTA frequency changes; how to get guide to reflect it?

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by cogx, Feb 17, 2009.

  1. Feb 19, 2009 #21 of 487
    Adam1115

    Adam1115 Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    But it wouldn't HAVE to change if the guide data was based on the remapped channel number like it's supposed to be instead of the actual frequency.

    That was the WHOLE POINT of ATSC doing that, so that channel 9 could stay channel 9 even if they are really on 38...
     
  2. Feb 19, 2009 #22 of 487
    kiko

    kiko New Member

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    The problem lies with Tribune Media aka zap2it. I reported the incorrect frequencies to Tivo who opened a ticket with trib.

    I've been using xmltv's tv_grab_na_dd to verify that the data is still incorrect.

    For example KITV-DT was on <fccChannelNumber>4</fccChannelNumber>
    and after the digital switch the data should say <fccChannelNumber>40</fccChannelNumber>

    I hope Tribune gets this fixed soon.
     
  3. Feb 19, 2009 #23 of 487
    markens

    markens Member

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    Perhaps people should start demanding $$ credit from TiVo for every day that the guide info (and channel mappings) are not correct. After all, TiVo is not providing the service being paid for.

    Really, it's been known for months that this was going to happen and the lineup changes should have been ready. It's beyond belief that TiVo was not on the ball here.

    But yet I'm not surprised. Sigh.
     
  4. Feb 19, 2009 #24 of 487
    ciper

    ciper Active Member

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    If TiVo allowed guide data mapping as discussed in this thread http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=362736 this wouldn't be as much of an issue. I invite you to join the discussion in progress (skip to the last couple pages rather than reading the entire thread).
     
  5. Feb 19, 2009 #25 of 487
    bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

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    Tribune updated their guide with some frequency changes today. The next time your TiVo connects to download guide information, it will download those changes. Alternatively, you can force a connection now under Settings -> Phone & Network.

    If aren't getting a picture on an off-air channel (from an antenna), or one of your off-air channels is not mapped to the correct frequency, then please call TiVo immediately to report that.
     
  6. Feb 19, 2009 #26 of 487
    kb7oeb

    kb7oeb Member

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    Tivo should switch to what ever Titantv.com uses, they have correct listings for 2 out of my 3 problem stations.

    (if you click on a show the channel info next to the description lists what they have for the digital channel)
     
  7. Feb 19, 2009 #27 of 487
    bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

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    I believe TitanTV uses FYI Television, which is notorious for its unreliable guide information (i.e. incorrect program names, descriptions, flagging new episodes as repeats, flagging repeats as new episodes, etc).
     
  8. Feb 19, 2009 #28 of 487
    Roderigo

    Roderigo New Member

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    Huh? The plan from "months" ago were that *all* high powered channels were going to turn off analog, not that only 421 were going to turn off analog on the 17th (not sure of those 421, how many simultaneously changed frequencies - which is the crux of this thread). You certainly didn't want tivo to execute on that plan!

    From the FCC's press release on 2/16:
    http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-288530A1.pdf
    So, within the last week, the planned analog shutdown went from 1800 stations down to 421, and of that 43 changes were within the "last few days"

    Finally, I'm guessing that tivo/tribune actually needs to confirm with the station that they actually made the change as planned. What if something went wrong, and they weren't able to change their frequency on the 17th? Then you'd have guide data with updated frequencies, but nothing yet broadcast. This is just as bad a situation.
     
  9. Feb 19, 2009 #29 of 487
    kb7oeb

    kb7oeb Member

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    The FCC published a list of stations that were planning to shutdown. For a company the size of Tribune they should have been able to put together a reasonably accurate list. Heck they should have the resources to call each station on the list and just ask them what they were going to do.

    Volunteers over on AVS had a fairly accurate list going before the FCC released theirs. The volunteers just searched the FCC website for fillings where the stations told the FCC what their plans were.

    It sounds like Tivo did nothing, Tribune did nothing and Tribune is just waiting for stations to update their information.
     
  10. Feb 19, 2009 #30 of 487
    Roderigo

    Roderigo New Member

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    If this was in response to my post, my debate was with the statement that the changes have been known for months, when in reality some have only been known for days. And, I was suggesting maybe they did make calls to all the stations, that requires a minimum of 421 calls, And that's assuming they can get the right person at the station who can answer their question - maybe not the same person at the station who they deal with for guide related issues.

    Another part of my argument is "plans" are not reality. Tivo/tribune have been caught before sending out cable lineup updates on the "scheduled" date for a change, only to find out later that the cable company delayed things without letting tribune know.

    I'd say the jury is still out on this conclusion. I haven't seen anyone post saying they got a frequency update, but they're also not likely the people that would post. I would also not be surprised to see some data get updated when boxes connect tonight. If stations change at 11:59PM on 2/17, it's possible that tribune didn't send out the udpdate until 2/18, and boxes would pick it up in their 2/18-2/19 connection. It's also possible with the number of changes, that something gets missed, and it will take some time for everything to settle down.
     
  11. Feb 19, 2009 #31 of 487
    dig_duggler

    dig_duggler Member

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    I really have no idea how this works, but I have lots of duplicate channel numbers (13-1 WVTMDT is NBC antenna channel, 13-1 WVTM DT (notice the space) is the NBC clear QAM channel from my cable provider. 33-1 WCFTDT is my ABC antenna channel, 33-1 is also ABC3340 from my cable provider (again, clear QAM HD abc channel from my provider; this holds true for all my networks). I would LOVE if the guide data applied to both since they are the same channel but a different way of receiving it (giving me guide data for my clear QAM) but that sounds like it ain't ever gonna happen.

    What are all the identifying features for the Tivo to map the channel to Tribute guide data? Anyone familiar with it?
     
  12. Feb 19, 2009 #32 of 487
    lew

    lew Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your first point. Customers that are having issues should request a credit. I'm not sure what tivo could/should do for customers that have LS.

    Your second paragraph is 100% false. The law extending the deadline to switch over was signed in early February. I understand stations are notifying the FCC by email if they intend to go with the earlier date. Had Tribune/tivo gone with the changes that were known about for months the vast majority of the customers would have bad guide data. Most of the stations, particularly in the larger markets, are waiting to switch.

    It's beyond belief that that you can distort the facts as much as you are.
     
  13. Feb 19, 2009 #33 of 487
    cogx

    cogx Member

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    I'm willing to have an open mind, but making even a hundred changes of a channel frequency in a database shouldn't take more than a day. Put an intern getting minimum wage on the task and they could have made all the changes required in few hours. We have students doing similar kind of work of grinding, manual data processing tasks and they just put their headphones on and churn the stuff out. This isn't mapping genomes (or rocket science), it's matching up a call sign with a frequency with an index that points to programming data for a particular channel. I spend more time a week analyzing NFL stats for my fantasy football than it would take to correct this stuff. I have to assume people who think this is complicated don't work with computer data for a living.
     
  14. Feb 19, 2009 #34 of 487
    lew

    lew Well-Known Member

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    You want to have an open mind? Read the posts that mention the fact that stations are notifying the FCC via email what they're doing. There isn't an accurate, updated list, that gives the status of each station. Obviously inputting the correct frequencies isn't a big deal. Getting accurate information to input is a big deal. Tribune really needs data from the stations.
     
  15. Feb 19, 2009 #35 of 487
    Popasmurf

    Popasmurf TiVo Holic

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    I called TiVo last night and was told I needed to wait 2 weeks to see if Guide data gets updated and THEN call in to report and fix. Does that sound right?
     
  16. Feb 19, 2009 #36 of 487
    jrm01

    jrm01 New Member

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    No. Call them back.
     
  17. Feb 19, 2009 #37 of 487
    markens

    markens Member

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    Let me clarify my point. I did not mean to suggest that ALL changes originally scheduled for Feb 17 be pushed out. I was simply saying that the DATA should have been already compiled and ready to go, and therefore it should be a relatively straightforward matter to verify and push the applicable changes out in a timely manner.

    The delay bill certainly threw a monkey wrench into the works, no question about it. Even with the list of stations terminating analog known on Feb 13 (only 10 deferred exceptions), there were still details to confirm regarding DTV channel transitions. But I would have thought Tribune would be somewhat more proactive in getting and vetting those changes than they appear to be. Us customers shouldn't have to be required to initiate lineup changes here, which seems to be the case.
     
  18. Feb 19, 2009 #38 of 487
    cogx

    cogx Member

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    The station in question for me is run by a guy who regularly posts on the AVS forum site and he sounds like knows what he is doing. The FCC record for their station is accurate. But you're saying that the Tribute company doesn't care about the FCC records, they just assume the broadcast stations will contact them, the stations have to *initiate* that contact? So, if I post back on the AVS forum site, what should I tell him to do in order to get Tribune to make the necessary frequency change in their guide data?
     
  19. Feb 19, 2009 #39 of 487
    ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    it is not the data processing that is the problem, it is getting the right data that is the problem. I have to assume you do not sit in requirements meetings with business partners for a living.. ;)

    We had 2 stations here that publicly waffled on when they would go dark on analog. One even had a crawl going that actually changed during one evening on a recording I made. Everyone, that was ready, was thrown into a tailspin by this dumb extension as it came after all the plans had been laid out.

    if the station owner contacts someone as www.zap2it.com then that should effect the change needed.
     
  20. Feb 19, 2009 #40 of 487
    Adam1115

    Adam1115 Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    That makes no difference. That clear qam is not a mapping, it's ignored by tivo. IF it were remapped (like with a cablecard) it would have a valid cable channel number (like 653).
     

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