OTA and Cable filter question

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by orangeboy, Sep 2, 2009.

  1. Sep 2, 2009 #1 of 18
    orangeboy

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

    4,089
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    Apr 19, 2004
    East Moline, IL
    BHN came out today and installed traps to block basic cable in my apartment, to finalize my removal of their cable TV service. Hooray. After plugging my antenna into the coax wall plate upstairs, I can only receive some of the channels downstairs that I used to before when I had a temporary 75' coax running between the antenna upstairs, and my Tivo downstairs. Are the traps killing (some of) my signal? Below is a crude diagram of my setup:

    Code:
    -----Downstairs-----
    
            Wall
              |
            MoCA
              |
            Tivo
    
    
    ------Upstairs------
    
            Wall
              |
          Splitter
         /        \
       MoCA    Antenna
         |
    Cable Modem
    The MoCA adapters are working as expected, and some channels are being piped through the existing (pre-run/in-wall) coax. What can I do to get all of the channels? Signal strength of the channels I get range from 60 - 90, according to my S3.
     
  2. Sep 2, 2009 #2 of 18
    orangeboy

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

    4,089
    0
    Apr 19, 2004
    East Moline, IL
    Additional info: I found when using the signal strength meter, channels with a frequency of 23 or less remain viewable. I went from 38 viewable desired channels to 9 using the pre-run coax. I went back to the ugly 75' coax run outside the wall until I can get this figured out!
     
  3. Sep 3, 2009 #3 of 18
    fyodor

    fyodor Active Member

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    Sep 19, 2006
    Let me ask a stupid question-is your antenna feed going into one of the splitter outputs? That's what it looks like on the diagram.

    F

     
  4. Sep 3, 2009 #4 of 18
    orangeboy

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

    4,089
    0
    Apr 19, 2004
    East Moline, IL
    Why yes, yes it is. Should I change the diagram to say combiner instead of splitter? Is there a difference? This is what I'm using: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062050

    I'm pretty ignorant relating to this type of technology, and I'm hoping that someone with greater knowledge can shed some light on whether what I'd like to accomplish is possible, given my circumstances. From what I've learned from google, what I want to do seems pretty reasonable (except for me apparently): http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/cable-modem-antenna-coax-1250.shtml
     
  5. Sep 3, 2009 #5 of 18
    fyodor

    fyodor Active Member

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    Sep 19, 2006
    I thought most splitters had a lot of input loss in the combining direction, but it looks like yours doesn't. Can you try putting the cable modem downwind of the MoCA adapter downstairs so that you don't have to split upstairs and see if that makes a difference.

    F
     
  6. Sep 3, 2009 #6 of 18
    orangeboy

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

    4,089
    0
    Apr 19, 2004
    East Moline, IL
    Thanks F -
    That's a great suggestion. I need to do a bit more disciplined, methodical testing to see what the problem is. I have pulled the wall plates from all the rooms that have them, and found a single cable leading to each outlet, and not a daisychain running from one outlet to the next. This leads me to believe that all outlets run to a central junction, most likely beyond my control (and under my apt. complex's control). I almost wish it were daisychained, so I could create some "closed circuits" between rooms, isolating one coax to support my cable modem, and creating another to support MoCA & antenna. As it is now, I'm going to disconnect my MoCA and cable modem, and see if the existing wiring supports only my antenna, and the cable modem signal.

    Thanks again for the reply, F! I didn't want to be the only one participating in my thread :D
     
  7. Sep 3, 2009 #7 of 18
    orangeboy

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

    4,089
    0
    Apr 19, 2004
    East Moline, IL
    OK, that was pretty easy. I have now determined that it is neither the MoCA adapters nor an attached cable modem that is limiting my channel selection. I used this configuration to test:

    Code:
    -----Downstairs-----
    
            Wall
              |
             TV
    
    
    ------Upstairs------
    
            Wall
              |
           Antenna
    I can still only get channels with a frequency of 23 and lower. Would a diplexer help in my situation?!
     
  8. Sep 3, 2009 #8 of 18
    orangeboy

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

    4,089
    0
    Apr 19, 2004
    East Moline, IL
    Grr. I just spent 25 minutes on the phone with Brighthouse customer service trying to find out more about the trap put in place yesterday. The rep was quite adamant that the trap in no way is hindering my ability to receive the OTA channels. I begged to differ, explaining that when I use the coax cable that has the trap installed, I can only get 9 of 38 channels. When I don't use the coax with the trap installed, all 38 channels can be tuned successfully. She went on to explain that OTA signals no longer work due to the Digital Transition, and that I would have to get basic cable. I knew I was in trouble at that point. At least I tried. :rolleyes:
     
  9. Sep 3, 2009 #9 of 18
    gastrof

    gastrof Hubcaps r in fashion

    7,486
    2
    Oct 31, 2003
    Potato and pen.
    I'm always concerned when I hear about people combining different types of signal in a single coax. You may not have cable TV, but for the modem to work, there's signal there.

    There's got to be a connection between the fact you're running the internet connection thru the same cable you've got hooked up to the antenna.

    You're not showing the trap on your diagram. Outside the house?

    Try this-

    Totally disconnect the cable feed from the house's wiring.

    Power down the modem itself if it plugs in to your AC.

    Leave the antenna connected.

    See what channels you get in both parts of the house.
     
  10. orangeboy

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

    4,089
    0
    Apr 19, 2004
    East Moline, IL
    Thanks gastrof.

    I'd like to do that, and I even told the BHN CSR that if this were done (completely disconnecting the cable, and not just removing the trap), I would get the antenna to work. But... I live in an apartment, and have no idea where the entry point is for my unit. Is this a valid call for maintenance? Would maintenance feel comfortable connecting/disconnecting BHN's cable lines? The BHN CSR stated that there was nothing a tech could do (because the trap isn't effecting my OTA experience :rolleyes:), and one would not be sent. Having one onsite to do exactly what you propose should prove that the trap is interfering with my ability to receive OTA signals. I guess the next thing to do (regarding Brighthouse) is cancel or threaten to cancel my phone and internet service, and go with someone else. I consider this a last resort, with the hopes of finding a workaround allowing internet and OTA to coexist.
     
  11. gastrof

    gastrof Hubcaps r in fashion

    7,486
    2
    Oct 31, 2003
    Potato and pen.
    Oh well...

    Thought you were in a free standing house. You spoke of 'upstairs and downstairs'.

    My suggestion? Get a second antenna and connect them directly, one in one room, one in the other.

    Since you seem to be using an indoor here, I'd be VERY hesitant to use a single indoor for two different TVs anyway.

    Leave the cable's internet feed as is. They don't want to play nice with each other, then don't let them play together at all. :p
     
  12. fyodor

    fyodor Active Member

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    122
    Sep 19, 2006
    To be honest, this is probably the problem, rather than any splitting issues. Many cable companies are still broadcasting channels even if you don't have service, and it's probably mucking up your antenna feed if they're sharing the same wires.

     
  13. orangeboy

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

    4,089
    0
    Apr 19, 2004
    East Moline, IL
    Well, my "upstairs" is a one room loft (without a TV - only one TV in the house). I have the antenna up there because I can squeeze about a ½ dozen more channels, including a CBS feed. With the antenna near the TV downstairs, the CBS signal drops to about 25-30 (from about 60-70), and doesn't tune :(. I lose about 20-30 points off my signal strength on a lot of the channels dropping a floor.
     
  14. orangeboy

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

    4,089
    0
    Apr 19, 2004
    East Moline, IL
    Just my luck. Even when I get away from Brighthouse, I can't get away from Brighthouse. Do you think I have a valid complaint for my local government and/or FCC that Brighthouse is hampering my ability to receive OTA signals?
     
  15. orangeboy

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

    4,089
    0
    Apr 19, 2004
    East Moline, IL
    BTW, thanks guys for the input. :up:
     
  16. fyodor

    fyodor Active Member

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    122
    Sep 19, 2006
    FWIW, it might be worth poking around to see if you can find the main drop where the cable enters your apartment. Maybe you can run another set of coax along the same passages for the antenna?
     
  17. GBL

    GBL covert opiniative

    1,992
    97
    Apr 20, 2000
    Twin Cities, MN
    Or run a coax from upstairs to downstairs inside the wall where the plates are installed.
     
  18. orangeboy

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

    4,089
    0
    Apr 19, 2004
    East Moline, IL
    I'll need to talk to maintenance about running new wiring.
     

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