Orville, Pilot 2017/09/10

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by Unbeliever, Sep 11, 2017.

  1. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    Jan 31, 2002
    I enjoyed the first episode of Orville.
    I'm looking forward to more this season. As well as watching Star Trek Discovery.
  2. series5orpremier

    series5orpremier Well-Known Member

    Jul 5, 2013
    You guys are mixing up two characters. The virtual reality guy, as you called him ninja ogre, was Mel Rodriguez as far as I could tell. Patrick Cox is another ogre-like creature who is a member of the Orville's crew.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  3. pdhenry

    pdhenry Recumbent

    Feb 27, 2005
    Oh, OK.

    I never researched who Patrick Cox is or what role he's credited with. I just took someone else's word for it. :)
  4. series5orpremier

    series5orpremier Well-Known Member

    Jul 5, 2013
    Now I have to contradict myself. I think the VR guy is Patrick Cox and the crewmember is another actor - Peter Macon (Lt. Commander Bortus).
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  5. LoadStar

    LoadStar LOAD"*",8,1

    Jul 24, 2001
    Milwaukee, WI
    It's not a parody.
  6. DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

    Apr 16, 2003
    What could the Star Trek people do? They don't have exclusive rights to the idea of a TV show about the crew of a spaceship.
    aaronwt likes this.
  7. bicker

    bicker bUU

    Nov 9, 2003
    It would almost surely qualify under Fair Use.

    This post may have been entered by voice recognition. Please excuse any typographical errors.
  8. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

    Oct 17, 2000
    It wouldn't be fair use...that's when you use copyrighted material in very small amounts for non-profit purposes. The question here is whether Orville distinguishes itself enough from Star Trek to be considered a distinct thing. Obviously, Fox's lawyers believe so. But I wouldn't want to be the lawyer trying to convince a jury that Orville isn't a Star Trek clone...
  9. DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

    Apr 16, 2003
    As I said, there's nothing protectable about the concept of a show about the crew of a spaceship. What would be protectable are the specific names of people and objects, and the plots of the episodes. So as long as The Orville doesn't have someone named Spock and doesn't do an episode about Tribbles, they're probably safe.
    tim1724 likes this.
  10. Craigbob

    Craigbob Well-Known Member

    Dec 1, 2006
    Land of...
    I finally got around to watching this last night. Like most up here and everywhere else I've seen it's a mixed bag for me. there were some scenes that were so slavish to ST that it hurt, the introduction to the ship, The addressing of the crew in the rec area... Right out of ST:TMP.

    The music was just this side of copyright infringement. The look of the Krill were obviously based on the Jem 'Hardar from DS9.

    I've never been a huge fan of Seth McFarland, though his Family Guy/Star Wars parodies are great. This not so much. The jokes were trite and predictable, and the writing was too meh. I'd love to see this as a straight drama series and less jr high school humor.

    I loved the visual designs, though the shuttlecraft seems weirdly proportioned/sized.

    I'll give it a few more episodes and hope it finds it voice/footing.
  11. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

    Oct 17, 2000
    That's not necessarily true...e.g., National Comics (now DC) put Fawcett Comics out of business with their suit over Captain Marvel (Shazam) being a copy of Superman. We'll never know whether National would have won, because after the case had dragged on for ten years Fawcett ended up settling with DC and closing their comic book business. But they had enough of a case for it to drag on for a decade, based solely on similarities.
    JYoung likes this.
  12. series5orpremier

    series5orpremier Well-Known Member

    Jul 5, 2013
    I think Fox is confident as long as there are SOME jokes they are easily protected against other franchises via parody without even having to argue how dissimilar it is. Did Star Trek ever sue Star Wars? Just because one movie is a western doesn't mean they should be able to prevent anyone else from making a western.
  13. RGM1138

    RGM1138 I wanna Rock

    Oct 6, 1999
    Gulfport, MS
    Maybe no one remembers this because it was in ST:V, but that whole shuttle crashing into the shuttle bay was ripped right out of the movie. It was so similar that it made me sit up in my chair.
    I have the oft maligned Shatner-helmed movie on Vudu and they also have "Old Wounds" available free. I did a comparison, and it's not a shot for shot remake, but you can tell they used it as a reference.
  14. series5orpremier

    series5orpremier Well-Known Member

    Jul 5, 2013
    When the scientist implored them to come and they landed at the scientific outpost I got a strong Operation: Annihilate! vibe just from my own personal deja vu, but the plots turned out to be completely different and upon further review the architecture of the complex wasn't nearly as similar either.

    I think we imagine similarities that aren't there just because of our limited past references to draw upon.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  15. DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

    Apr 16, 2003
    That's because a character, such as Superman, can be copyrighted, and then if someone else produces a character with substantially similar characteristics, there may be copyright infringement.

    There are many elements of Star Trek that are copyrighted. And it's more than just the character names and specific plots. But I think just the basic concept of a TV show about the crew of an exploratory spaceship is too broad to protect. You'd have to get more into the specifics to determine if something was copyrighted. There are definitely similarities in the setup and the setting, but so far, I didn't see anything in The Orville that was substantially similar enough to claim copyright infringement.
  16. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

    Oct 17, 2000
    But Orville is a lot more directly derived from Star Trek than Star Wars was. Star Wars was very much its own thing...Orville is not.

    I'm not saying it's actionable. But it's very clearly a very close copy.
  17. Saturn_V

    Saturn_V Now with flavor!

    Jun 1, 2007
    Almost forty years ago 20th CFox tried to sue MCA (Universal) for Battlestar Galactica's similarities to Star Wars. And there were enough similarities to prevent if from being summarily dismissed.
    A History of 'Star Wars' Legal Wars: 'Battlestar Galactica,' 'Star Trek' and Ronald Reagan

    But the Ninth Circuit did not agree and held that there were many similarities between the works that “do in fact raise genuine issues of material fact as to whether only the Star Wars idea or the expression of that idea was copied.” Among the similarities cited by the Ninth Circuit were:
    • A war between “the galaxy’s democratic and totalitarian forces,” which are depicted in alternating sequences between the two camps, and which culminate in an air attack on the totalitarian headquarters, followed by an awards ceremony;
    • A friendly robot who is severely injured or destroyed by the totalitarian forces;
    • A “romance between the hero’s friend (the cynical fighter pilot) and the daughter of one of the leaders of the democratic forces;”
    • The destruction of “an entire planet, central to the existence of the democratic forces;”
    • A scene in a cantina or casino “in which musical entertainment is offered by bizarre, non-human creatures;” and
    • “Space vehicles, although futuristic, are made to look used and old, contrary to the stereotypical sleek, new appearance of space age equipment.”
    The case was remanded and then reportedly settled before further proceedings took place. By that time, Battlestar Galactica had already been canceled. Twentieth Century Fox Film Corp. v. MCA Inc., 715 F.2d 1327 (9th Cir. 1983).
    JYoung likes this.
  18. JYoung

    JYoung Series 3

    Jan 16, 2002
    Los Angeles
    Yes, I was thinking about National Periodicals V Fawcett and Fox v Universal over Battlestar Galactica.

    It seems to me that Paramount could sue Fox over this.
    They might not win but the case could be tied up in court for years.

    I'm sure the fact that MacFarlane has brought in producers, effects guys, and even music composers from the Trek franchise is an argument in Paramount's favor.
  19. vman41

    vman41 Omega Consumer

    Jun 18, 2002
    Forbidden Planet could have a Star Trek rip off, but it pre-dates it.
    Family and ClutchBrake like this.
  20. terpfan1980

    terpfan1980 It's Just TV TCF Club

    Jan 28, 2002
    Xbox Live:...
    Go one more recent on the comparisons and law suits - the fan fiction Trek tale (Axanar) that was basically shutdown, at least for a good while, because of Paramount's lawsuit over same. Granted, that was a derivative work that was directly traceable back to Trek, but then again it was also original and there were plenty of people that felt it was fair use.

    Truth of the matter - lawyers can sue over just about anything and they likely will sue over this show. If The Orville is successful, I could see Paramount looking for some sort of payout/settlement from Fox and I could see Fox paying something to make the suit go away. That's how the game is played. Convince a judge or jury that things are too close to something that already existed and get paid a lot of money. Even if you lose, appeal until you win or force settlement.

    This was closer to Trek in an awful lot of ways than was Galaxy Quest. Galaxy Quest was very much parody. This was far less parody and that makes it - to me - all the more likely to wind up in court because this was 'too close' to Trek and could confuse fans into thinking this came from the same people (and when you look over the list of people involved in some future episodes, it makes perfect sense that this is very Trek like)

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