Optimum Cable Card Issues With Tivos

Discussion in 'TiVo Edge' started by blakeb, Aug 5, 2020.

  1. Aug 29, 2020 #41 of 227

    citicat New Member

    Oct 16, 2003


    While this is clearly Optimum either ignoring or deliberately causing this problem, Tivo had better consider a lawsuit to try and get Optimum to fix it. I got Tivo for my father a couple years ago, and now I keep getting phone calls "why don't I have the lower channels" "why does it keep freezing". Not to mention dealing with it myself. We're both on Long Island, seems like many if not a majority of the complaints are from here?
    blacknoi likes this.
  2. Aug 29, 2020 #42 of 227

    blacknoi Active Member

    Jan 23, 2006
    Morris County NJ system. I have the freezing on both my bolts and attached minis.
  3. Aug 29, 2020 #43 of 227

    RickNY Active Member

    Sep 16, 2007
    The majority of complaints are from Long Island because that is where the NDS CableCards are primarily deployed. There are 2 or 3 Optimum systems in NJ that also use the NDS cards and none that I am aware of in CT. The other areas use Scientific Atlanta/Cisco CableCards - which dont experience the issue.

    Morris NJ is an NDS system as well. Pretty much all of the systems that had access to the Sony iO boxes when they were first rolled out for digital TV - before the SA boxes came around.
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2020
    blacknoi likes this.
  4. Aug 30, 2020 #44 of 227

    SC42 New Member

    Aug 19, 2020
    Will relate my experience just to pile on to this issue:

    Nassau county, NY. Bolt with NDS CC. Freezing and V58 started a month ago. I don’t subscribe to any movie channels, just The package that has CNN, Fox, MTV, etc. Changed out CC several times as they couldn’t get it bound. Just yesterday a 3-way call with TiVo and Optimum finally got the most recent card I picked up bound. I also picked up a cable box just in case, because I wanted to watch a hockey game yesterday. Got my channels back, but freezing and V58s persist. Also have a TA. Optimum rep, who was the only one (including a field tech) who could UNbind the card then REbind it to my Bolt said the TA is now required for SOME channels. She couldn’t provide an email list, but started to read them off. The list included some international channels, none of which were in my package. I disconnected the TA, and watched the game with the picture going black 2 times in a row about 30 seconds apart, every so often. Not frequently enough to make it unwatchable.
    Now I’m back to square one, trying to resolve the freezing. My signal strength is at 92% for most channels, and SNR is 37. TiVo says get it down to 29-35 but not sure if I want to pursue that too far. Optimum would have to send a tech to do that apparently.
    While on the 3-way call, TiVo rep did share the phone number they call, which ultimately got me to the Optimum rep (
    “Optimum advanced technical department“) who could bind my CC. Is it proper to post it here?
  5. Aug 30, 2020 #45 of 227

    RickNY Active Member

    Sep 16, 2007


    Don't bother trying to mess with your signal. It wont have any impact at all on the problem we are all experiencing.. I have both a Tivo Roamio with 5 Minis, as well as a SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime. Both devices use NDS CableCards, and both devices have the same issue, and both have TAs. SiliconDust analyzed logs from their devices to determine what is happening - and it has nothing to do with signal levels. It has to do with specific CableCard messages relating to the CCI flag. SiliconDust determined that at each point where the picture breaks up (and on the Tivo, this leads to a V58 if it lasts long enough) - "At each of those times a new PMT was detected. The PMT information is sent to the CableCARD." and "The PMT contains information about what audio and video streams are present in a particular program. Any time it changes, the host device has to report that to the CableCARD, which requires it to restart the decryption of that channel, which can lead to video freezes or glitches because of a brief amount of time when non-decrypted data is output"

    Also - if you're interested in the SDV changes -- this is what they did on the Brookhaven system. On my Tivo, for all channels where there is both an SD and HD offering, I only have the HD version selected in the channel list. In March when they migrated our system, here is the list of SD-ONLY channels that they migrated to SDV (and now requires a TA) and which SD-Only channels stayed linear (does not require TA) -- Also, if you use them -- all of the Stingray Music Channels are SDV and need a TA:

    Moved to SDV (Requires TA)
    61 NEWS12+LI
    66 CSPAN-2
    77 CSPAN-1
    103 EUNEWS
    104 BBCW-NA
    115 ACC2
    116 CTANY
    120 DISCFAM
    122 NTOON-E
    124 TEENICK-E
    130 UKIDS
    141 DLIF
    156 FUSION
    157 COWBOY
    165 ART28
    176 ASPIRE
    178 TVONE
    184 GAC-E
    185 BETHER
    186 MTVCL-E
    190 FXMOVIE
    248 ACCSD
    323 SHOBY-E
    324 SHONEXT-E
    325 SHOFAM-E
    326 SHOWOMEN-E
    342 STARZK-E
    344 STARZBK-E
    345 STARZ-W
    346 STARZCM-E
    347 STARZ5-E
    352 ENCSUS-E
    353 ENCWEST-E
    354 ENCCLASS-E
    355 ENCBLACK-E
    356 ENCFAM-E
    357 ENC-W
    358 ENCACT-E
    359 ENCESP
    397 FLIX-E

    Linear SD Channels not requiring TA at this time:

    18 GOV-ACC
    20 PUBLIC
    59 CNHN
    88 GSN-E
    95 WWORDT3
    102 NEWSMX
    107 CSPAN-3
    108 WABCDT3
    110 WABCDT2
    111 WPIXDT3
    112 WCBSDT2
    113 WNYWDT2
    114 WPIXDT2
    118 LO
    129 BOOM-E
    131 WNETDT2
    132 WLIWDT3
    133 WLIWDT2
    140 WWORDT4
    143 GETTV
    144 WLIWDT4
    173 AHC
    174 LIFEMN-E
    175 UP
    179 LOGO-E
    226 TENNIS
    395 MGMSD
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2020
  6. Aug 30, 2020 #46 of 227
    Joe R

    Joe R New Member

    Aug 30, 2020
    Just got a new tivo edge. Hooked it up last Wednesday 8-26-2020, put the NDS Optimum cable card in, called Optimum to pair the card and the customer service rep said that since june they are not handling the cable cards and she gave me a tech number for Tivo to call. When I talked to the lady there she asked me if I had Optimum and I said yes and she said she didn't know why they were telling people that since Optimum does activate and pair the Optimum cable cards. She said she would call Optimum tech and have then call me. Got a call from Optimum tech and he said that the customer service rep mis-spoke and evidently she meant that she didn't do it, that tech does it. He tried but they couldn't activate the card and said it was not a bad card but he had to refer it to the more experienced tech level to resolve it. On Saturday, I had received no call back regarding the problem so I called Optimum again and the the customer rep checked the status and said that the Optimum Tech people were working with the Tivo tech people to resolve the problem. As of tonight, Sunday, 8-30-2020, I still only have local channels 702 to 714 and have not heard a peep out of Optimum. When I try other cable stations I get the V58 error every 5 seconds. We have been a tivo customer for over 15 years and never had a problem. We have have a premier, bolt and have a mini which all work fine, but the Edge problem is getting to me and we even discussed trying to get a refund and go back to the Bolt. But from the discussion here it appears that the problem is bigger than just the cable card. We are in Monmouth County, NJ. I received a Tuner from Optimum awhile ago but have never needed it and it appears that it doesn't resolve the problem anyway.

    P.S. It would be nice to see some input from some current Tivo Techs or Execs responses as to the problems posted on the board since this is a Tivo sponsored board!
    debsi likes this.
  7. Aug 30, 2020 #47 of 227

    RickNY Active Member

    Sep 16, 2007
    Understandably we are all frustrated. But this is 100% an Altice/Optimum issue, on many fronts. First there is the issue with them being unable to pair cards at telephone support. For whatever reason, they are emailing all pairing requests to someone somewhere that does this. If a tech comes to your house, it’s the same deal. The “executive office” rep that has been working with me from my FCC complaint just yesterday got access to the pairing system himself, but prior to that - he was contacting someone else and putting me on hold for 45 mins while someone else did the pairing.

    Secondly, there is the V58 issue. Now - I’m your case, the repeated V58 errors are normal once you tune an encrypted channel before the card has been paired. Once it’s paired, that ugliness will go away - but you will still get the random video and audio freezes. If these happen on a channel that is broadcasting CCI 0x02 (Copy Once), you’ll also likely get a V58 that recovers when it occurs. This is also an Optimum issue - and it also happens on the Silicon Dust HDHomerun Prime when connected to the NDS card.

    This is why everyone has had to resort to FCC complaints in an attempt to get it resolved. With any luck, the FCC takes notices the large number of CableCard complaints in a short period of time and gets in touch with Altice.
  8. Aug 31, 2020 #48 of 227

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

    Dec 7, 2012
    Ashland, PA...
    TiVo or Xperi have no relationship to this board and it is not sponsored by TiVo. If you want to contact them directly, use FB or Twitter.
  9. Aug 31, 2020 #49 of 227
    Tony Vartuli

    Tony Vartuli New Member

    Aug 27, 2020
    I set up my tuning adapter on Thursday. Unfortunately, I did not see any improvement. I set up a service call for this Tuesday, 9/1. Yesterday, 8/30, Out of the blue, I received a call from an Optimum Tech. He said, check your channels. Magically, they did something on their end, and now it is all working. I'm seeing all my channels again, since yesterday. I hope it holds up! By the way, I'm on Optimum in Greenwich, CT with a Tivo Premiere.
  10. Aug 31, 2020 #50 of 227

    old_dood New Member

    Apr 1, 2016
    don't bother, it won't fix the problem. I've added coax attenuators to drop the signal and s/n to what Tivo recommends. It makes no difference.
    JoeKustra likes this.
  11. Aug 31, 2020 #51 of 227

    jafa Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2002
    Confirming, the problem isn't signal related.
  12. Aug 31, 2020 #52 of 227

    Hippster Active Member

    Nov 28, 2001
    Tucson, AZ
    Just for the record, Altice's Suddenlink division is just as awful at cable cards now. Been trying for a week at my parents new place to get an Edge system working and the overseas call centers are absolutely useless when it comes to pairing.
  13. Aug 31, 2020 #53 of 227
    Joe R

    Joe R New Member

    Aug 30, 2020
    Sorry about that, new here and made a bad assumption that Tivo sponsored this. I have filed a complaint with the FCC and we will see what happens. Still no call back from Optimum techs and still not getting the service we paid for.
    JoeKustra likes this.
  14. Aug 31, 2020 #54 of 227

    JackieGaGa Member

    Mar 24, 2008
    Nassau County Long Island getting V58 error I.m also using a tuner adapter
  15. Aug 31, 2020 #55 of 227
    Miss Knapp

    Miss Knapp Member

    Apr 9, 2017
    Newark, DE
    I just got a TiVo edge back in the middle of July. I thought it was defective because after it has been set up properly, the unit would randomly reboot itself when I was using features such as going through my “to do“ list and changing the times I would record stuff. Sometimes it would just go to the gray screen with the arrows on it. After this had happened several times, I started documenting it. TiVo sent me out a new Edge and I sent back the original one.

    Unfortunately, the same thing happened with the second one. Has this happened to anyone else? I have Verizon FiOS and a MoCA connection. Is it something to do with the software on the Edge? I have a TiVo Roamio Plus and never had this issue.
    Thanks in advance
  16. Sep 2, 2020 #56 of 227

    jafa Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2002
    We have dumps of the actual data that is triggering the chain of events that results in video corruption or loss of the channel.

    The cable system keeps changing the Program Mapping Table (PMT). Any time the PMT changes a message is sent to the card. The card stops descrambling and repeats the CCI process with the host. Descrambling resumes and operation returns to normal. Video is lost/corrupt during this process but should recover.

    Each time the PMT changes the sequence number increases by 1 as expected.

    The only difference in PMT is the addition or absence of an ES PID with a stream type of 0x86. There are no descriptor tags, no associated ECM PID, and that isn't an expected stream type.

    We can code the HDHomeRun to fixup/avoid the problem however this does appear to be a problem at the cable headend.
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
    JoeKustra likes this.
  17. Sep 2, 2020 #57 of 227

    stevet555 Member

    Jan 23, 2017
    @jafa - nice technical explanation, does someone have a contact to get this in front of TIVO as well for coding perhaps? Not sure of how historically they fix bugs that are this deep!!

    So the expectation would be HDHomeRun will recover without any pixelation / loss - I assume.
  18. Sep 2, 2020 #58 of 227

    nyjklein J-E-T-S JetsJetsJets TCF Club

    Aug 8, 2002
    Man, do I miss Wilt Hildebrandt. This is exactly the kind of complex issue with Cablevision he was willing to step in and get resolved.

  19. Sep 2, 2020 #59 of 227

    jafa Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2002
    We released new HDHomeRun firmware to a customer to test a proposed workaround.

    So far the new HDHomeRun firmware has detected the problem multiple times on SCIHD and DSCHD. Each time the new code successfully prevented the problem from tripping up the CableCARD. No glitches observed in the video.

    Talking with some CableCARD experts to see if this approach is acceptable for general release.
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
    stevet555 and citicat like this.
  20. Sep 2, 2020 #60 of 227

    SC42 New Member

    Aug 19, 2020
    I filed my FCC complaint less than a week ago. Got a call today from Altice/Optimum corporate customer relations. They’re having a tech come here on Friday, and the relations person is supposed to follow up later in the day. She was very pleasant on the phone at least.
    I recorded a video of the pixelation and going black to show the tech. I can share @jafa’s findings. Can I expect any progress to be made, and do you have any suggestions on what else I can do to make the tech visit worthwhile? TiVo Bolt here.

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