One location of MoCA TiVO mini has MoCA no internet

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by pdb, Dec 9, 2018.

  1. Dec 9, 2018 #1 of 19
    pdb

    pdb New Member

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    OK, this is weird. We have a TiVO Roamio as MoCA Bridge with 3 TiVO minis. Using only MoCA for TiVO. This setup has been in place since 2015.

    Moved mini01 from Room A to Room B. Worked fine in both Room A and Room B.

    Couple weeks pass, go to turn on mini in Room B and no longer works - can't see Roamio.
    Checked on MoCA in network status and MoCA looks fine, "UP" and transmitting, can see Roamio and minis on MoCA. But IP address is weird address and fails all (internet) network statuses.

    Swapped out mini01 for mini02. mini01 works fine in mini02 location (Room C). mini02 same problem in Room B. So problem isn't mini.
    Moved to another (new to mini) tv/coax location (Room D) - both mini01 & mini02 work fine. Yup problem isn't mini.

    Receiving different errors "problems with router" to "Tivo connection" as I try to reset mini01 (or mini02) MoCA and autodetect internet in Room B.

    Decide to try back in Room A - same problem as in Room B.

    So... after walking through the Network MoCA setup a few times...
    Disconnected power on all minis, powered down cable modem and router for 5 min.
    Powered up cable modem.
    3 min later powered up router
    3 mi later powered up mini02 in Room C - Roamio can see both on MoCA network and mini02 again works fine (mini01 in Room C fine too)
    about 15 min later powered up mini01 in Room A. Error "Problems with router" (This router is the same router that is working on all other devices in the house (and worked in Room A & B previously) and to my knowledge nothing has changed hardware wise)
    Try to reset mini to factory defaults and can't get past the MoCA setup. But no problem in another location.

    Coax Hardware/Internet -
    cable comes into amplifier
    Split to cable modem and coax splitter
    all coax connected to 8-way coax splitter

    Cable modem to wireless router
    router out to linksys hub for wired side

    To my knowledge we have not been hit by lightning.
    I'd really like to get (any) mini working in Room A just don't understand enough about MoCA internet...

    I'd be grateful for any suggestions...
     
  2. Dec 9, 2018 #2 of 19
    PSU_Sudzi

    PSU_Sudzi Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a POE filter installed? If not, this can cause a previously functioning Mini connected via MoCA in a specific location to stop working. The POE filter should be placed on the first splitter location it can be, preferably the drop into the home. @krkaufman is the expert troubleshooter on these matters and no doubt is probably already drafting some questions for you!
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
    krkaufman likes this.
  3. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

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    Do you really need an 8-way splitter? That's probably pulling your MoCA levels way down.

    But, since it had been working, you might get lucky by verifying that all the cable connections are quite snug. It's been known to fix things.

    When you get the 1 Mini working, check your MoCA Levels in Network Diagnostics and report that here.

    What device is your MoCA Bridge?

    -KP
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  4. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    This was my first thought.

    One example from the past:
    >See here< for more on "PoE" MoCA filters.


    One qualm with your troubleshooting is that the initial post seems to indicate that the Roamio (your MoCA bridge) wasn’t powered-down as part of the full power reset:
    A full power reset has been found to resolve odd MoCA issues in the past, but it does require powering down all the devices, especially the MoCA bridge. You might even consider including your amp in the process, to be overly cautious.


    But regardless of the power reset process, ensuring a “PoE” MoCA filter is in place is critical. To that end, can you report the brand/model of your amplifier? (to check whether it includes a built-in filter)
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  5. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    If the Roamio Plus|Pro and all Minis are connected downstream of this 8-way splitter, your “PoE” MoCA filter should be installed directly on the input of this 8-way splitter (regardless of whether the amp has a built-in MoCA filter). If you find a MoCA filter installed somewhere else upstream of the splitter input, move it to the splitter input. (You want to keep the MoCA signals away from the amplifier.)
     
  6. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Roamio ...
    ... so a Plus or Pro, but it’d probably be worthwhile to get a confirmation.

    Come to think of it, I don’t recall seeing mention of a specific cable provider, so it would also be useful to have that identified, including whether the provider requires a SDV Tuning Adapter paired with the CableCARD’d DVR.
     
  7. pdb

    pdb New Member

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    Apr 1, 2015
    Yes, POE is before amplifier which is before splitter.
     
  8. pdb

    pdb New Member

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    I know it's crazy but coax to each bedroom, study, greatroom, etc... The beauty of building 10 yrs ago. Some not used.

    I'll check on the seating and report back.

    The TiVO Roamio is the bridge - do you think a different bridge may help?
     
  9. pdb

    pdb New Member

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    Thank you for asking... provider tis Spectrum (Time/Warner) with Tuning Adapter/Cable Card
     
  10. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    As just posted above...

    If the Roamio Plus|Pro and all Minis are connected downstream of this 8-way splitter, your “PoE” MoCA filter should be installed directly on the input of this 8-way splitter... If you find a MoCA filter installed somewhere else upstream of the splitter input, move it to the splitter input. (You want to keep the MoCA signals away from the amplifier.)

    This filter location also has the added benefit of keeping your MoCA signals isolated from the cable modem, more beneficial as providers roll-out DOCSIS 3.1 (with frequencies overlapping those of MoCA).
     
    fcfc2 and PSU_Sudzi like this.
  11. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Not unless it’s experiencing a hardware failure. If you’ve been happy with the DVR as your MoCA bridge, you should be able to continue using it for that purpose. That said, some people prefer using standalone MoCA adapters as the main MoCA bridge to avoid Internet streaming outages at the Minis whenever the DVR is rebooting.

    If not already, you’ll want to make sure that the MoCA-enabled TiVo DVR (your Roamio) is NOT connected via the Tuning Adapter’s TV/STB Out RF pass-through port, as this port severely attenuates signals at MoCA frequencies. (It doesn’t outright block them, just puts a severe hurt on ‘em, but the losses can add-up.) You’ll want to use a (MoCA-compatible) 2-way splitter to get the TA & DVR direct-connected to the coax.
     
  12. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    A specific details would be helpful, like how many of those 8 coax ports are actually need/used for your home and what brand is the splitter? If you can get by with a lower number of ports on the splitter, you lower the loss which tends to benefit both MoCA and the tv signal quality as mentioned by KP, particularily if you can replace that 8 way with a MoCA rated splitter like the Holland brand, or if you can use it, one of these, https://www.amazon.com/AMPHENOL-IPGH3M4-VF-Infinity-Premise-Splitter/dp/B07CQTHL33, if you can use it. Please note only 3 ports support both catv and MoCA, the other 4 are MoCA only ports and there is a builtin MoCA filter.
     
  13. pdb

    pdb New Member

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    Sorry, the POE is on splitter input not amp input.
    into house -> amp -> POE -> splitter
     
  14. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    On the 2-way or 8-way splitter input ...
    ... ???

    For best results, you'd want the "PoE" MoCA filter installed on the 8-way splitter's input port, assuming the cascaded splitter setup described in the original post.

    Also...

    Can you provide feedback on how the Roamio DVR is currently coax-connected, direct or via the Tuning Adapter's pass-through port?

    ... and if you have better results with a full power reset when the Roamio DVR is included in the process?
     
  15. Furmaniac

    Furmaniac Active Member

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    I had this exact issue. It was fixed when the main Roamio Pro DVR was connected to a splitter before it got to the CableCARD tuner box
     
  16. pdb

    pdb New Member

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    Thank you , Thank you!
    Winner, winner chicken dinner! Pulled 2 ports off splitter and works great.
    Interesting since no changes...

    Thank you everyone for your help. I've been pounding my head on this and am thankful for your help & guidance.

    Happy Holidays everyone!
     
  17. pdb

    pdb New Member

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    Just to post this cleanly...

    The issue ended up being loading on the coax splitter. Tightening connections may have helped too, but that wasn't it.

    Thank you to everyone who offered help and guidance. I'd still be pounding my head without you. Cheers!
     
  18. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

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    You could probably replace your splitter with a MoCA Rated Unity Gain Amp that passes MoCA and doesn't drop your signal level.

    They're available at up to 9 port.

    -KP
     
  19. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I'm not clear on what this means. Did you just disconnect 2 coax runs from the 8-way splitter? Or did you replace the 8-way splitter with a 6-way? If you just disconnected the runs from the 8-way, did you leave those two ports open or did you cap each with a 75-ohm terminator (e.g.)?

    That's debatable. That a MoCA connection was established after making a change doesn’t mean the change made addressed the root, originating issue; the change may have simply compensated for (balanced out) an issue elsewhere on the coax ... whether an aging component or sub-optimal configuration.

    Still open questions:
    • Was the Roamio DVR (MoCA bridge) also powered-down during the full power reset troubleshooting procedure?
    • Is the Roamio DVR connected via the Tuning Adapter RF pass-through port?
    • Is the "PoE" MoCA filter optimally installed on the input of the 8-way splitter (assuming all MoCA devices are downstream of this splitter)?
    • What is the brand/model of the 8-way splitter? Are coax lines RG6?
    • What are the MoCA stats as reported by the MoCA-connected TiVo devices?
     

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