Old movies on HDNet -- are they 'improved'?

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by Gai-jin, Oct 17, 2007.

  1. Gai-jin

    Gai-jin Active Member

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    Feb 28, 2000
    Quad City...
    I just got my cablecards and HD tier setup, and set a recording for last night of 'Oh God! Book II.' (I've always loved the Oh God series, so was glad to see it on.) Today, however, when I watched the movie, I didn't see a huge quality improvement that I expected. Colors still had a reddish tint to them, and there were 'dust' specs and other film imperfections flashing by on the screen.

    Other than upconverting to 1080i, is anything else done to improve these movies? I would have expected them to be remastered before being called 'HD'.
     
  2. mikesown

    mikesown New Member

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    There's not much one CAN do to improve the quality of an old film. Not only does film have a limited resolution(it gets blurry if you zoom into it too far), but aging of the master copy degrades the quality.

    Left with a blurry, aged film, the person(or, more likely, company) doing the mastering can't do much. They can tweak the colors, and run filters to sharpen the film, but without a _LOT_ of effort(i.e. going through frame by frame), one's not going to get a ton of quality difference. There's no "magic button" someone can press to make the film suddenly appear sharp and vivid.
     
  3. bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

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    Picture quality will be heavily dependent on type of film (16mm, 35mm, etc) and the quality of the print used to create the encode. Some films will look better than others simply because a higher-quality print was available.

    You can also check the recording file size to determine whether your cable provider is degrading the quality of that movie. Select the recording and press the INFO button. Scroll down with the Ch- button until you see the size, in gigabytes. It should be about 17.5Gb. If it is significantly less than 17.5Gb, then your provider is degrading the quality of the Hdnet Movies feed.

    Edit: I was looking at the wrong recording. It should say ~12.25Gb for 1:35, so if you recording was 11.62Gb and five minutes short, that's right on target.
     
  4. HDTivoDesire

    HDTivoDesire Member

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    Plano, TX
    To my knowledge they are not "upconverting" to 1080i. They process the original film print (which has a much high resolution than 1080i) so it is a true 1080i product.

    Most old movies I have seen on HDNet Movies have looked fantastic in my opinion. 2001, The Music Man, and most others have blown me away with how great they looked.
     
  5. zaknafein

    zaknafein Shorthanded

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    I believe you are correct. They are doing true HD transfers from the original analog film. (which knows no such thing as "resolution") Obviously, the quality of the source is going to have everything to do with how well the finished product turns out, but, in general, there should be a marked improvement.
     
  6. TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    With modern Technology there is ALOT that can be done to correct/improve/Fix damage/errors both to picture quality & sound.

    Alot of it is done through "DIGITAL REMASTERING". Which takes alot of money & time.

    Many older movies, especially those that can still generate alot of revenue for the studio will be remasterd.

    Example: Lawarence of Arabia & Casablanca have BOTH been Remastered and will soon be available on Blu-Ray.

    HOWEVER.... most old movies that are being shown on a HD Channel are just being upconverted. No enhancements.

    You have to remember... everything is about the BOTTOM LINE... PROFIT.... If they DON'T think &/or beleive that spending the extra money on remastering WON'T generate the EXTRA revenue... then they won't.

    I have seend "Remastered" copies of OLD DR. Who shows from the 1960's & compared with the video prior to remastering. Many issues were corrected, fixed & even improved. Some Dr. Who shows even have CGI now added to them (As an option-extra on the DVD).

    So it is possible to improve... just takes alot of money that most Studios / Networks aren't willing to spend unless it will generate more PROFIT.

    Remastered Old Movies for HD will FIRST show up on Blu-Ray &/or HD-DVD format.... Which will them be shown on HD Networks. Example: Casablanca, Lawarence of Arabia.

    TGC
     
  7. wierdo

    wierdo New Member

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    Arkansas, US
    There are plenty of previously telecined HD films out there. UHD, Mojo, and (I presume, since I don't have it) HDNet Movies show them a lot.

    Oftentimes those telecines are done from relatively crappy release prints. There were a lot of those showing on HBO and Showtime for a long while.

    Sometimes they come from 1080i digital intermediates telecined from the master or an intermediate for a prior DVD release. (and then downconverted to be put on the DVD, obviously)

    When a studio decides they want to release a Blu-ray or HD-DVD, they can go get the master (or a 1st generation copy) out of a vault, which in and of itself will result in a much better end product, just due to the fact it's (probably, if it's a relatively recent film) been stored carefully and hasn't had the crap used out of it, leading to scratches and dust all over everything. Also, they have a much bigger budget for fixing up the film, although they often go too far, IMO.

    My point is that many or most of the HD movies that are currently playing on TV have never been released to Blu-ray or HD-DVD. Sometimes they get good quality prints or digital copies, sometimes they don't. I'd much rather see a telecine of a crappy print than no HD film at all, at least for anything I'm vaguely interested in watching. Besides, the dust and scratches give it character! :D
     
  8. mappler

    mappler Blah

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    Many of the movies they show (such as Oh God! Book II) are unlikely to ever see a re-mastering effort. I would think this is just too costly for films that aren't likely to sell a lot of copies. I like the HDNet movies a lot. And, as weirdo indicated, the dust and scratches add a little character...;)

    -Matt
     
  9. Gai-jin

    Gai-jin Active Member

    7,770
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    Feb 28, 2000
    Quad City...
    11.62GB. I assume your number is for a 2 hour movie, this was 90 minutes. (Actually, 95, the guide data for this showing was wrong and it cut off the last 5min. :( )
     
  10. Grakthis

    Grakthis New Member

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    Oct 4, 2006
    Disagree.

    I've got a good enough eye to spot movies that have just been upconverted vs movies that have actually been remastered and they made their first appearance on HDNET (atleast as near as I can tell).

    I can say with some confidence that Taxi Driver, The Searchers and Cool Hand Luke were remastered and all three of those were on HDNET months ago.
     
  11. wmcbrine

    wmcbrine Well-Known Mumbler

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    Stop saying "upconverted". Nothing on HDNet Movies is upconverted. Just because it's a low-quality transfer (or source), that doesn't make it "upconverted". An upconvert is when you take a 480i or 480p source (like a DVD) and convert it to 720p or 1080i (or any other higher resolution, but those are the only two in use).

    Most (all?) of the other HD movie channels do use upconverts at times, but not HDNet. It's against their policy. TTBOMK.
     
  12. tootal2

    tootal2 Active Member

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    Oct 14, 2005
    They are not upconverted they are down converted. Since film has more detail then hdtv.
     
  13. gweempose

    gweempose Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Northbrook, IL
    I have found when watching TNTHD that much of the stuff they show is indeed just upconverted and streched. It's quite annoying to say the least.
     
  14. gweempose

    gweempose Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Northbrook, IL
    This makes sense, as Mark Cuban has been one of the biggest proponents of HDTV. The last thing he would want to do is leave a bad taste in the mouths of recent or potential HD converts.
     
  15. bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

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    DC Metro Area
    My ~17.5Gb number was for "Oh God! Book II," a 95 minute recording.

    Edit: I was looking at the wrong recording. It should say ~12.25Gb for 1:35, so if you recording was 11.62Gb and five minutes short, that's right on target.
     
  16. TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    True, I totally forgot about HDNet... Funny thing too.. Since I am from Dallas, & Our own Dallasite MARK CUBAN owns HDNet.... He is big on HD & doing it right.

    Should see our American Airlines center where his Dallas Mavericks play. Very High tech & HD. :)

    Oh & BTW.... Cool Hand Luck is coming out in HD-DVD format very soon, if it hasn't allready been released.

    TGC
     
  17. TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    Actually those are the only 2 in use on a consumer level.

    There are several movie theaters using 3 Chip DLP projectors from Texas Intstruments here in Dallas where the DLP chip is made that do industry level of 2k or 4k lines. (2000, 4000)

    There is one consumer 3 DLP projector that you can buy for $32,000 that is capable of showing 2000 lines. However, there aren't any consumer level players that will produce the 2000 lines. Therefore the projector Upconverts. Not bad really. I have seen a demonstration of it at TI.

    TGC
     
  18. HDTiVo

    HDTiVo Not so Senior Member

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    Just go by about 7.5GB/hr for any HDNET recording. That's where you should be if you are getting the full transmission from the cableco.
     

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