Official: Tivo says "DVR rollouts with... DirecTV are on track"

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by Phillip Chapman, Aug 27, 2009.

  1. Sep 3, 2009 #41 of 211
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Well-Known Member

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    The problem in the case of the DVR is the numbers really don't mean all that much. They may speak a little to how few Tivo subscriptions there are but that is about all. The majority of people who have DVRs at least in my experience don't even really use them. They have them because they were told they were great and they were almost the same as paying for a non DVR. I can't even remember the last time I saw a non-DVR DTV receiver in any of the stores.

    It is amazing when you talk to people and how many just accept the DVRs will miss shows. They do it because they aren't using DVRs the way most of us use DVRs. For example I can't remember the last time I watched live tv. Meanwhile the people I work with talk about how they have to be home by a certain time to watch their favorite show and they have a DVR. When you ask they either say they always forget to set a recording or they are afraid it won't record the show.

    The other issue is with DTV you no longer had Tivo for a choice for HD programming. What else were those users who refuse to leave Directv but now only watch HD programming supposed to do? Of course when you can't choose Tivo and there is only the one option, guess which one grows over time.

    I think with DVRs you will never have a true idea what the real numbers are as a result of all this especially as the boxes are pushed more over standard receivers.
     
  2. Sep 3, 2009 #42 of 211
    Enrique

    Enrique Well-Known Member

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    Cover up, your Bias is showing.
     
  3. Sep 3, 2009 #43 of 211
    bigpuma

    bigpuma Well-Known Member

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    Really? I don't know anyone that has a DVR and doesn't use it.

    You have had a very different experience than I have. I don't know anyone that doesn't record shows they want to watch. Sure a lot of people still watch live TV, myself included at times, however they still record the shows they want to watch the most.

    True but if there was a big demand for TiVo wouldn't those people leave DirecTV in favor of cable and a TiVo? The churn rate has remained very low at DirecTV since they abandoned the TiVo interface.

    The problem that TiVo has is that most people think TiVo = DVR much like Kleenex = tissue. They don't care what brand DVR they get as long as it records shows.

    Personally the new TiVo would have to be a lot better than the current HD DVR for me to switch, especially if it is going to cost extra each month.
     
  4. Sep 3, 2009 #44 of 211
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Well-Known Member

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    Well I work with all women and this is the case 95% of the time. Even my family who have DTivos don't bother to set shows. For them they find it overwhelming to view a full now playing list. If I didn't set season passes for my mother and print out a list of upcoming shows for my father they wouldn't even record anything. When my mother got Directv it was the same price whether she got Tivos or basic receivers so I ordered Tivos for her. They would rather just sit down and watch what is on. I realize this isn't always the case but seems pretty common at least with the people I talk to. My brother who has had a DTivo since the first model came out still only records 5 or 6 shows. He now has the HD DVR since he has no choice, but he mainly uses it for trickplay during sporting events.

    Don't rule out some people only have the option for satellite, not to mention most people stay for the sports packages. My brother has a choice of Fios or DTV. Without Sunday Ticket, he won't even consider Fios and the same goes for my father. I have friend who is staying with me while they finish building his new house. After using Fios and Tivo for a month or two, he only now thought to check to see what was available at his property. His options are Directv or Dish. None of the cable operators have run lines out to where he is building yet. Don't forget to take into account most people stay with what they are comfortable with. This applies whether it is cable companies, internet providers, cellphone companies, or anything else along those lines.

    I agree. But the issue also stems from most people are just now experiencing their first DVRs and just the fact they can record something is a step up. Until they change their viewing habits like most of us have they won't be as concerned whether it misses a show since they watch it live. I forget the exact number but engadgethd on their podcast mentioned cable company DVRs had something like a 20% missed/failed recording rate and people just accept it.

    I may sound biased to Tivo and I am somewhat since from using the Brighthouse DVR to the R15, Tivo has always been a superior experience for me. Obviously it isn't perfect or I wouldn't have built a Windows 7 DVR nor would I be looking forward to possible new cable card tuner announcements at CEDIA. I agree Tivo really needs to step up their next boxes not just for Directv but also for the stand alone market. For those who are happy with the DTV DVRs I am happy for you but for me they didn't work in my house.
     
  5. Sep 3, 2009 #45 of 211
    shibby191

    shibby191 New Member

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    If the R15 is your only DirecTV DVR experience then I can see why you're jaded against them. The HR2x series is *light years* ahead of the R15. The R15 was programmed by NDS. It was a failure. And DirecTV admitted that when they kicked NDS to the curb and took DVR development in house which is now what you see on the HR2x series and has been pushed back down to the R16 DVR a bit as well. It's a whole new world. ;)

    Cable DVRs may miss recordings 20% of the time, but on my HR20 and HR21 I haven't missed a recording in nearly 3 years. But maybe that's just me. :up:

    But it's still not the Tivo UI so it will never be good enough for some people, no matter what.
     
  6. Sep 3, 2009 #46 of 211
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Well-Known Member

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    Well it isn't just the R15. While that is the only one I have used, until the 50 series limit is removed, the DTV DVRs just aren't an option to me. I have never used the new ones so I don't know how good or bad they are but with only 50 shows per DVR unless you use some boleon searches they just aren't suitable for my house. I have around 300 season passes right now on 3 Tivos and my 7MC DVR.

    I am in no way bashing the DTV DVR, but it wouldn't work for me. This is on top of thier lease model and more expensive product when compared to Fios who I made the switch to after 6 years of DTV.

    In the past I probably would agree with you but after using Media Center I can see benefits of a different UI. I don't know how different the UI on the HRx is compared to the R15 but I have never liked DTVs UIs.
     
  7. Sep 3, 2009 #47 of 211
    samo

    samo New Member

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    Are there even 300 repeating shows in existence on all the channels? Sorry, it is crazy to have that many season passes. Do you watch TV for a living? :)
     
  8. Sep 3, 2009 #48 of 211
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Well-Known Member

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    Lol no unfortunately I don't get paid to watch tv. I just over time have accumulated more and more season passes which is why I never even turn on live tv. If there was an easy way to link to the season passes I would do so. 300 is a little high for me but since I only switched to Fios in June I am still recording a bunch of shows in HD like concert series that I have previously seen just never in HD or where I could easily dump it to my server.
     
  9. Sep 4, 2009 #49 of 211
    TyroneShoes

    TyroneShoes HD evangelist

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    These are people who are luddites, and just won't embrace the technology, which is why such a terrific concept as a DVR has taken a decade or more to reach 30% penetration (and would be stuck under 10% if not for the push from vendors). Ironically, smart phones and Twitter don't seem to have this sort of problem enrapturing the masses; they don't seem to be able to get enough of meaningless social networking sites and fart apps. I just don't get it.

    They obviously are not familiar with the reliability of Tivo, and of most other DVRs, or are so completely helpless that even the unthreatening friendly interface of Tivo is just too much for them. USA Today this week said each person on average watches 32.2 hours a week of television. I probably fall in that category, and yet I never watch live, just like you. If I record everything and miss only about 4 shows a year due to DVR malfunctions, that's a very strong reliability factor, about a 99.985% success rate. I'm not even sure the water department can boast a success rate figure that high.

    It's also amazing to watch folks play back a DVR-ed show and sit through the commercials, but it happens all the time. The broadcast industry figures less than 20% of DVR owners actually skip commercials, which I find shocking and nearly unbelievable. I have skipped virtually every commercial since I won a BetaMax in a contest in 1975.
     
  10. Sep 5, 2009 #50 of 211
    cbessant

    cbessant New Member

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    I can't remember the last time we watched a live show - everything we watched is TiVo'ed and we zip past commercials, or in the case of something like "America's Got Talent" filler crud we don't want to see. And the power to search and record programming without any effort. We keep a Wishlist for things like "Terry Fator" or "Westminster Kennel Club" so when something pops up on one of the 250+ channels, we nail it.

    TiVo really catapulted TV content viewing/searching like none other. VCRs were great in their day, but TiVo really made a technology leap - kind of like going from a Sony Walkman cassette to an iPod, only TiVo did it better.

    Seeing other DVRs forced on consumers without a choice by DTV offering TiVo, IMHO, is like living in the former USSR, or the 1984 "Big Brother" Mac Super Bowl commercial. At least with cable you have a choice of their DVR or TiVo. With DTV, not so much today until they finally bring back TiVo.

    TiVo - It's a good thing
     
  11. Sep 5, 2009 #51 of 211
    BOBCAT

    BOBCAT Member

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    I agree, There is no replacement for TiVo.
    I hope the new HD TiVo uses the same peanut remote as my brain and hand is programed to run the remote without looking at it.

    Way back in the day, commercials were entertaining and fun to watch. But now, just a lot of noise called music and quick seen cuts. Sometimes you don't know what they are trying to sell.
    But commercials have there place. Gives you time to make a head call or get a snack.
    The only commercials that influence me are the local food store commercials with their sale items for the week.

    MR TiVo, it is ok to change the color of the remote, but please leave the layout the same.
    If you have to change the style of the remote, please use the same remote codes so the old style remote will work with the new box.
    Thanks
     
  12. Sep 5, 2009 #52 of 211
    cbessant

    cbessant New Member

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    OK, I'll admit: when I see a Bud commercial zing by, I'll backup and watch. After all these years, they still create some of he bets commercials I have ever seen.

    Remote: As I recall, The Peanut won a technology award by the NYT or WSJ when it was released. I think it is a great remote: simple layout, not overly "buttonized", can I use it with my eyes closed and just eloquent. The only change I'd make (and this may just apply to the DTV TiVo Peanut): the On/Off button is just below the "Back 8 Sec" button. I've hit the On/Off more times than I care to remember. This is one button that should be up and out of the way. This is my only negative comment, and it is really nit in the grand scheme of TiVo.
     
  13. Sep 6, 2009 #53 of 211
    BOBCAT

    BOBCAT Member

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    Hi Chuck,
    When I say "Back in the day" I am talking about the '50's and '60'. Guess that dates me!
    My favorite was the "Doctor Ross Dog Food" commercial.
    You are right about the TV power button. It should be at the top of the remote, but what button would you want to move down to the power button location? the only ones that I would consider moving is ether the "exit" or "info" button. most likely the exit button as the info location is too close to the guide button that is used the most at the top. There is no room at the top to just add a button. Oh well, guess they will leave well enough alone. If they redesign the remote, it will delay the release of the HD TiVo another 6 months.
     
  14. Sep 8, 2009 #54 of 211
    LAlawMedMBA

    LAlawMedMBA New Member

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    When my DirecTV TiVo SD unit became dysfunctional from overuse nearly two years ago, I was forced to adopt several R15 units. The technological retrogression in moving from TiVo to DirecTV DVRs is like driving a Cadillac (TiVo) one day, then receding into the horse & buggy era (DirecTV).:confused:

    When I upgraded to HD, I was misinformed about TiVo availability until committing to a two-year contract with DirecTV, after which I learned that: (1) Current TiVo HD units only work with cable tv, and (2) the resumption of any business relationship between TiVo and DirecTV is uncertain, and may never eventuate.:thumbsdown:

    The HR23 DirecTV HD DVR is, amazingly, much worse than even the R15. Here are a few of its shortcomings: (1) Its severely cramped storage capacity restricts HD programming to 100 hours. (2) Whereas the R15 could be programmed up to one month in advance, the HR23 is limited to 14 days. (3) Responsiveness to remote control commands is so much slower on the HR23 than the already snail-like R15 that you will often need to press buttons several times, sometimes causing serious disruptions. (4) Worst of all, a half-second electrical outage wiped out all programs and settings on the HR23 on the twelfth day of its use. In the eight years that I have used DVRs, there have been more than a hundred such electrical outages, but none had any effect on DVR programming or settings until the HR23 came along.:(

    Although I have several options, including Dish and Charter Cable, DirecTV offers several channels not available from competitors (including Link and an extra PBS source), and probably has more channels anyway, particularly HD and sports offerings. However, the recent loss of the Versus channel adds further to my frustration with DirecTV.:mad:
     
  15. Sep 8, 2009 #55 of 211
    stevel

    stevel Dumb Blond TCF Club

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    Welcome to the forum, but you seem rather badly misinformed. If you're comparing storage size, the HR23 is bigger than the TiVoHD. Both of course allow external storage add-ons.

    Neither DirecTV DVRs nor TiVos have guide data more than two weeks out.

    It is claimed that the TiVo-powered DirecTV HD DVR will be out in 2010. We shall see. I have been using the HR2x series for two years now, however, and think it's fine. I've never had a loss of programming info.

    I will agree that the R15 was particularly bad. But it isn't at all like the HR2x nowadays.
     
  16. Sep 8, 2009 #56 of 211
    shibby191

    shibby191 New Member

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    Pretty much agree with everything Steve says here.

    1) HR23 has more hours of HD recording then just about any other DVR that exists, including Tivo HD. Easily expanded with an eSata drive should you find it lacking.

    2) R15 has the same 2 week guide data the HR23 has

    3) There have been some complaints of slowness on some units. Latest national release going out seems to cure that for many of the few that had it. Even at it's slowest my HR2x units are still faster then any of the many Tivo units I've owned in the last decade. But that's just me of course.

    4) Well, any power outage, no matter how short, can fry a hard drive or other components. It's usually the "spike" of power when it the power comes back on that fries things. A cheap UPS unit will protect your DVR. You've just been lucky in the past if you've had frequent power outages and no problems. Any DVR based machine (DVR or computer) should be on a UPS to protect it.

    And yes, the R15 was bad. The HR2x series is light years ahead of the R15 and even lightyears ahead of where they were at just 2 years ago.

    Good luck.
     
  17. Sep 8, 2009 #57 of 211
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Well-Known Member

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    I think he is referring to the fact the R15 stores everything in memory versus on the hard drive so if you have a brief lapse of power or have to reset the box you have to wait for it to reacquire the guide data. This of course means if you lose power at 7:50 you might miss the first few minutes of a show at least until it redownloads the current guide data. I don't know if this is still the case in the new DVRs.

    Obviously everything should be on a UPS, but for example in my house that isn't an option in every room due to layout and room in the entertainment center. I have room for a small surge strip but none for a battery backup, trust me I have tried.
     
  18. Sep 9, 2009 #58 of 211
    TyroneShoes

    TyroneShoes HD evangelist

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    While I agree that the peanut remote is a technical marvel, ergonomically speaking, I have one issue with it:

    It is too symmetrical, meaning it is not easy to determine if you are holding it upside down in the dark. Early on, I flushed the buffer a couple times by accident by changing channels inadvertantly. I haven't done that in quite some time, so maybe with practice its easier to tell.

    A DVR is probably the most-advanced and technically challenging (to build correctly) item we own (or lease :rolleyes:) Your HDTV and iPhone only have a small subset of the systems that a DVR has. I thought the HR10-250 was in its day the single greatest piece of gear I'd ever seen, but there is a laundry list of improvements that Tivo never dreamed of, all alive and well in the HR2x.

    I agree that it seems like living in a communist country when they replace your Tivo that you love with something different by force. In this case, however, it turned out to be mostly an improvement on the Tivo (not in every area, of course). So I'm cutting them a break. They had a tough job to do, big shoes to fill. But they did it right, and prevailed. Replacing the HR10-250 with something inferior would have definitely been an outrage. Replacing it with the HR2x has instead been progress.
     
  19. Sep 9, 2009 #59 of 211
    fasTLane

    fasTLane Member

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    The new Tivo can't get here soon enough.
     
  20. Sep 9, 2009 #60 of 211
    20TIL6

    20TIL6 BaDoop BaDoop BaDoop

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    The remotes for my S3 units have these ridges on the bottom of the lower end of the remote. Looks like you weren't the only one with that point.
     

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