Official: Tivo says "DVR rollouts with... DirecTV are on track"

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by Phillip Chapman, Aug 27, 2009.

  1. Sep 1, 2009 #21 of 211
    nirvanayoda

    nirvanayoda New Member

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    The corporations wouldn't be using Fish, etc. as "experts" per say (although those firms would likely hire expert witnesses). Rather, most corporations hire such firms as outside counsel to actually litigate the entire case. In most instances, in-house counsel would only make final strategic calls and monitor the outside firm to make sure they're handling the case effectively and satisfactorily.

    I'd guess that given the Tivo patent's history, AT&T and Verizon are more likely to rely on non-infringement defenses instead of invalidity.
     
  2. Sep 1, 2009 #22 of 211
    cbessant

    cbessant New Member

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    What really chaffes me is this isn't new for TiVo/DirecTv, just the MPEG-4, and TiVo has the rest of the magic software objects ready to go. Every few months, DirecTv dumps a HD MPEG-3 channel n th e70-79 range, like SHOWTIME-HD a few months back. I get to enjoy HD on like 7 channels, two of which are ESPN.

    I only have a satellite option where we live. If I had a cable option, I'd take it. Cable and satellite only provide content, TiVo has the great UI - the special herbs and seasoning that other DVR makers miss by a long shot.

    This looks more like a "business" (money and who gets how much) than a technical development thing. If it is technical, I can't imagine what that could be.
     
  3. Sep 1, 2009 #23 of 211
    shibby191

    shibby191 New Member

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    Could be. You'll have to ask Tivo since they are the ones building the thing. You'd think they would want it out sooner then later since every day they delay it more people cancel their Tivo subs and may never go back.
     
  4. Sep 1, 2009 #24 of 211
    CuriousMark

    CuriousMark Forum Denizen

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    Last I heard it was a DTV box, not a TiVo Designed and built box. Where did you get that info?
     
  5. Sep 2, 2009 #25 of 211
    Matt L

    Matt L Member

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    So, why are you punishing yourself? I don't get it anymore. I felt like that but the call of all those GREAT HD channels pulled me to the dark side and to be honest i have not looked back. I'd look at a new D TiVo but it would have to sing and dance for me to really consider it at this point. While the interface is different, and it lacks suggestions, the Hr2X series with the CE has more functionality than the HR10-250s.

    You know, there is nothing keeping you from having both, I do. but the TiVo is getting much, much less use as the days go on.
     
  6. Sep 2, 2009 #26 of 211
    sjberra

    sjberra New Member

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    Disagree here, their Uverse infrastructure is growing by leaps and bounds, so it would affect a large portion of their infrastructure.

    Probably haven't herd anything problem becasue ATT and Verizon's legal divisions have not stopped laughing yet and their hostile take over team is starting to plot
     
  7. Sep 2, 2009 #27 of 211
    shibby191

    shibby191 New Member

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    Sure it's a DirecTV box. But Tivo is designing and programming the software to go on it, especially if it's just going to go on top of the current HR2x receivers, the hardware has been out there over 3 years now.

    So unless DirecTV delayed getting a new hardware spec to Tivo (assuming new hardware), the delay and responsibility for this whole thing is all on Tivo. Tivo designs, programs and delivers it to DirecTV. DirecTV sells it. It's Tivo's baby.
     
  8. Sep 2, 2009 #28 of 211
    20TIL6

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    Now that is funny. The inability to record content in the consumer's home would affect their infrastructure. That's an amazingly weak infrastructure.:rolleyes:
     
  9. Sep 2, 2009 #29 of 211
    20TIL6

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    It's always been a business decision before a technical one. One side is dragging its feet. I can't imagine the benefit to TiVo if they were the ones. But I can think of reasons why DirecTV would like this to never launch.
     
  10. Sep 2, 2009 #30 of 211
    bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

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    Don't expect to see the new TiVo software on existing boxes. Expect to see it on DirecTV's next-generation DVR platform (i.e. HR30).

    The existing hardware is very limited it what it can do with the UI. For example, the HR2x can't support a HD UI with a high level of responsiveness. DirecTV's next-generation DVR platform will do that. It would be ridiculously stupid to write new software that is limited by older hardware when DirecTV is working on a HD UI of its own for the newer hardware.
     
  11. Sep 2, 2009 #31 of 211
    cbessant

    cbessant New Member

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    This is what has me questioning. I don't know what the attrition (churn) rate is for TiVo users on DirectTv that are moving to cable as they are tired of waiting. I only see this as an enhancement to DTV's offering, unless it eats into their profit margins by not leasing enough of their own in-house DVRs. I'd think TiVo would be a HUGE competitive advanage over DISH, and they'd be pursuing a new TiVo release more agressively.

    I'd use both, as someone suggested, however my wife is not hot about the DTV DVR so to keep marital bliss, we stick with the HD TiVo. I would leave DTV and move to cable if I had a cable option, but I don't.

    I'm a consumer ready to consume. Thanks for the info. Not knowing and seeing delays makes this frustrating.
     
  12. Sep 2, 2009 #32 of 211
    fasTLane

    fasTLane Member

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    Hang in there; the joy will soon return.
     
  13. Sep 2, 2009 #33 of 211
    CuriousMark

    CuriousMark Forum Denizen

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    I guess I just misunderstood your post then.

    I am thinking it might be new hardware, but it certainly could be all on TiVo's side. There was some speculation that negotiations over content and features were drug out a while, but that shouldn't have accounted for all the delays we are seeing.
     
  14. Sep 2, 2009 #34 of 211
    shibby191

    shibby191 New Member

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    Obviously we're all speaking with no knowledge of the real situation. My postings are just things I have read on places like Satguys, DBSTalk or other sites. The general consensus is that DirecTV fully expected this to be delivered by now but it's not and when Tivo announced last February that it was delayed until 2010 DirecTV was surprised at that.

    To me that says that DirecTV did their part, whatever that is, including providing a new hardware platform if that's what it will run on. Note it was *Tivo* that announced the delay, not DirecTV. DirecTV has not said one word about the whole thing since the original press release over a year ago. Tivo talked it up lake crazy up until CES at which point they refused to comment then the delay to 2010 was announced.

    So again, to me this says that Tivo has incurred delays. May not have anything to do with DirecTV either, could be they had some key developers leave and they had to pull resources off the DirecTV project to finish up something for Cox or Comast first. We don't know.

    But to me Tivo is the reason for the delay.

    Obviously this is just me putting together puzzle pieces in my mind and I could certainly be wrong.

    The two things I think we can all agree on:
    1) Tivo has everything to lose due to delays or non-delivery of the product. They NEED this to work.
    2) DirecTV has nothing to lose due to a delay and is really in a no lose situation with the whole thing. If it never ships DirecTV is doing just fine without Tivo. If it does ship the DirecTV simply makes more money. Win-win for them.
     
  15. Sep 2, 2009 #35 of 211
    sjberra

    sjberra New Member

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    /rofl good joke, thanks I needed that

    Tivo a divison of ATT or Verizon.
     
  16. Sep 2, 2009 #36 of 211
    samo

    samo New Member

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    To me delays are business decision on TiVo part. They know that they can not compete with an existing HR2X if they use existing TiVo HD software and that they have to implement all of the missing features or face lackluster sales.
    Personally, I would not even consider new DirecTiVo if it does not have either of the following:
    1. PIP window in a guide and now playing list.
    2. CID similar to HR2X
    3. FSI of some kind
    4. 1080P output
    5. Multiple custom guide settings (favorite channels)
    6. Interactive features and mix channels
    Even if new TiVo has all these features, I will not get one if they will have pause ads like they do on S3
    Of course I will not pay much extra monthly just to have Tivo and will not pay much more for the hardware.
    Even if new DirecTivo has everything I want and priced well, I will not jump in for at least 6 months to have somebody else debug all the problems that new DVR will have (every DVR I ever had took at least that long to get stable)
    I bet TiVO knows that majority of DirecTV customers are in a same shoes I am, hardcore TiVo lovers are negligible minority.
     
  17. Sep 2, 2009 #37 of 211
    cbessant

    cbessant New Member

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    It would be interesting to see marketing data showing the percentage of TiVo users on DTV. Also, if TiVo units are a negligible minority for DTV, why offer a new HD TiVo? Demand must be there otherwise why bother?
     
  18. Sep 2, 2009 #38 of 211
    TyroneShoes

    TyroneShoes HD evangelist

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    I could not have said it better.

    Last TV season my HR10's were primaries and the HR20's were backups. I hadn't quite weaned myself from the peanut interface, and slo-mo on the HR2x was a disgrace. This TV season the HR10's will be the backups and the HR20's will be primary. Slo-mo, while not elegant, has improved drastically, and I have become as accustomed to the HR2x interface as I was to Tivo. Now that DLB is here, there really isn't much reason to lament the passing of the HR10.

    And, while the HR2x started out as a dog, it quickly became first a contender, and then the leader. MPEG-4 aside, it is a very clever interface with a lot of functionality that Tivo never even dreamed of, such as simple things like overlapping recordings on the same channel, quick menu features, DOD, etc. The list goes on and on. Simultaneously, my HR10's have become much less reliable to the point where I must reboot them preventatively to hope for them not to reboot spontaneously, punching a 7-minute hole in my recording. Problems that were unthinkable on the HR10 became the order of the day with the drastic 6.3 software, much of which has not been fixed.

    If the new HD DTivo is supposed to be a premium product, they will have to really have something, and they will be playing catchup to the HR2x. By the time they want to launch, the HR2x may be so far in front that the whole idea of Tivo as a premium step-up DVR becomes obvious and patently ridiculous, and they may simply not do it, or launch in a half-assed way that is more of a whimper than a bang.
     
  19. Sep 2, 2009 #39 of 211
    shibby191

    shibby191 New Member

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    Well, it's pretty obvious.

    There are 40+ million DVR users. Of that less then 4 million are Tivos and shrinking every quarter.

    Thus Tivo already has 10% or less of the DVR market as it is (they used to dominate).
    Most DVR users have never used or even seen a real Tivo device and most think they are using Tivo even though they have never have.

    For DirecTV there are less then 1.5 million DirecTivo's left in service, out of nearly 19 million subs. And dropping fast every quarter. DirecTV says that over 60% of all new subs get their DVR and have hinted that nearly 50% of their entire user based now has an HD/DVR.

    Numbers really speak for themselves, especially the overall market. Tivo is a minority player in the DVR market and has been for a few years. Tivo users and lovers are vocal, but are a minority and getting to the point where they are just a bit player. Tivo's best income model right now is suing everyone (and they probably deserve it).
     
  20. Sep 2, 2009 #40 of 211
    20TIL6

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    :confused:
     

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