Of interest to UK owners "Tivo Will Fail" in Australia and "Bombed" in UK

Discussion in 'TiVo Series 1 - UK' started by ciper, Aug 19, 2007.

  1. Aug 19, 2007 #1 of 141
    ciper

    ciper Active Member

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    As some of you may have heard Tivo is officially heading to Australia. I've been following the discussion over on the OzTivo forum and just today an article was written that might interest you. Look at this post for a link to the article
    http://forums.oztivo.net/showthread.php?p=11189
     
  2. Aug 20, 2007 #2 of 141
    terryeden

    terryeden TiVo, Tivum, Tiva,

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    "Rob Leach, head of MCN's interactive television division and formerly of British pay-TV company BSkyB"

    I think that says everything! This is no different to Nokia saying that the iPhone sucks, or Burger King saying they don't think Subway will succeed.
     
  3. Aug 20, 2007 #3 of 141
    cwaring

    cwaring VM Tivo User

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    Knaresboroug...
    I was going to make that exact same point, but then I noticed it said "formerly of...", ie he left, and was wondering if it was fair comment seeing as he's no-longer associated with Sky :)
     
  4. Aug 20, 2007 #4 of 141
    Automan

    Automan Ex TiVo User

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    I suppose a lot depends on the range of TV systems and platforms down under to know if Tivo has a chance.

    Odd when of course in the UK Tivo are paying for an EPG only being used for a handful of users (30/40K).

    Thus if they launched again in the UK no real extra cost would be involved for the EPG other than maybe a few new servers.

    The cost of the EPG would also be spread over more customers.

    Automan.
     
  5. Aug 20, 2007 #5 of 141
    mikerr

    mikerr TiVoCentral.co.uk

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    The UK is more split than it was 5 years ago.

    Freeview:
    Currently flooded with cheap non-sub twin tuner boxes.
    Its a non-subscription model, would the masses pay for a £200+ box AND a sub ?
    TBH many are happy with the dumb DVRs with little/no outlay.

    Sky/Cable:
    People are happy to pay a sub, and high box costs, but since there are no cablecards etc,
    It would have to be a single analogue SD capture, when everyone is going HD with mutliple tuners....

    Only real option is to work with VirginMedia Cable, as we know the V+ hardware supports tivo, but VM is not cash rich either...
     
  6. Aug 20, 2007 #6 of 141
    cwaring

    cwaring VM Tivo User

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    Knaresboroug...
  7. Aug 21, 2007 #7 of 141
    aerialplug

    aerialplug Serious TiVo User

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    Sadly, I think I have to agree with mikerr.

    When TiVo first launched, there simply was nothing else on the market that did what it did. If it had been marketted well or if public awareness as to what it could do have been made better it may have had a chance of making it as it has in the States. And even then it didn't do well enough to sustain the TiVo marketting model here in the UK.

    Now, there are multitudes of Freeview PVRs where the consumer can buy the box (in many cases under £100) and use "forever" more without a subscription.

    Similarly, a Sky customer no longer feels like they're being charged to use Sky+ now that the £10 a month fee has been dropped (though in reality someone wishing to use a Sly box without any subscription at all still won't get Sky+).

    I'm not sure what the situation with cable is as I don't have cable nor do any of my friends any more since Sky One was dropped from Virgin.

    THe point is, people will look at TiVo as just another PVR and not understand nor want to pay for a service which provides all the extra metadata to allow TiVo to do what it does. The public never really liked the TiVo subscription/phone line model - I know a lot of people in fact who refuse to plug their Sky boxes into the phone line out of suspicion.

    Much as I'd like to see TiVo coming back, I'd only be interested in an S3 TiVo if it could record from all of the Sky channels (like my current S1 TiVo with its dedicated Sky multiroom Sky box). And that's not going to happen unless someone in our government is brave enough to break Sky's anticompetitive hold on the satellite market.

    It may stand a slim chance if cable picks up TiVo software as its model but that's no consolation for people living in the sticks like me (I live only half an hour away from the last village in the UK to be connected to the national grid and that was only 2 1/2 years ago!)

    I wonder if the moderate sized community of TiVo users in Australia, who up until now have provided their own service using modified UK & US S1 boxes will now have to stop using their home made service when a true TiVo service launches and technically they may be seen to be stealing a service from TiVo (though I don't know Australian law)?
     
  8. Aug 21, 2007 #8 of 141
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    Makes me remember an especially grisly Torchwood episode that put me off the series for good and made me cancel my season pass. I think you may know the one I mean.

    But take heart from the fact that unenlightened West Sussex County Council has still not paid the cost of ADSL upgrading three small exchanges in the County for which it previously paid for a crap wifi solution that almost certainly is as slow as a dog and drops out all the time. Yet every exchange in Wales now has ADSL, even if some only have 512k only Exchange Activate.

    As to Tivo I think the only chance in the UK now is if Virgin Media want to try to justify customers paying their high premium rate subscriptions to them instead of Sky, especially with the loss of Sky One.

    There seems no hope at all on Freeview for Tivo now as Freeview Playback boxes with Series Link functionality that works will be out there by the end of the year. At that point there will be a service almost as good as Tivo (from the point of view most users who don't know about Advanced Wishlists or thumbs ratings and Suggestions) but also with dual tuner support and PDC linking to accurate program start and end recording and for no ongoing monthly subscription. The boxes that can do this will probably initially cost a couple of hundred quid but the price will fall to 100 quid or less over the following year or two.
     
  9. Aug 21, 2007 #9 of 141
    mikerr

    mikerr TiVoCentral.co.uk

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    There's nothing to stop tivo making/licencing a freeview playback box either,
    but their subscription model is more suited to those who already pay a subscription for tv channels,
    i.e. sky & cable users.
     
  10. Aug 21, 2007 #10 of 141
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    Only the fact that the Freeview Playback market is now too competitive and that the typical price point is too low value so no one will be prepared to pay a monthly sub for Tivo service as a result. Especially with the Series Link and PDC parts of Freeview Playback soon being able to do the significant part of what a Tivo S2 can do for most potential users (that is normal people rather than sad techno geek gadget lovers like ourselves). ;) :p
     
  11. Aug 21, 2007 #11 of 141
    cleudo

    cleudo New Member

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    An advertising-supported TiVo service would stand the best chance of succeding imo, rather than the subscription model.

    An integrated ADSL modem & wireless router might be a good idea as well...
     
  12. Aug 21, 2007 #12 of 141
    TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    Sorry guys, but TiVo ain't coming back to the UK.
     
  13. Aug 21, 2007 #13 of 141
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    What about Virgin Media.

    It has been announced this afternoon that Steve Birch, their current CEO, has been given the push for failure to get the results the company is after and also the sale proposal is now off the agenda following the recent collapse of the private equity model for company buyouts.

    Couldn't the Tivo user interface on the V+ box be just what Virgin needs to establish why it is offering the best PVR in the marketplace and why customers who have the choice (i.e. those with Sky in a Virgin Media cabled area) should switch to it.

    A possible problem not mentioned in Carl's poll a while back though may perhaps be that none of the other boxes in Virgin's range can run Tivo software so they would have to encourage everyone to upgrade to a V+ package with Tivo software being one of the main inducements.
     
  14. Aug 21, 2007 #14 of 141
    TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    What about them? They have their own system. The software which the PVR runs is not a material part of the decison making process for normal people, who look at price andn channel choice.

    It's not going to happen, however much forum members here are in denial.
     
  15. Aug 21, 2007 #15 of 141
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    V+ is a high end product for more demanding consumers who do appreciate such things.

    Despite your lack of faith that the general public can appreciate the difference between different forms of PVR software its perfectly clear that in the US where they have experienced Tivo software that they do discern the difference and prefer it over all the alternative options.

    The major obstacle is the fact that Sky repeatedly abuses its Significant Market Power in dominating the pay tv channel marketplace to keep out technically superior rivals which it believes it would have to pay more royalties to and so earn a lower profit margin.
     
  16. Aug 21, 2007 #16 of 141
    cwaring

    cwaring VM Tivo User

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    Well seeing as none of the other boxes in Virgin's range are PVRs I don't think it would be a problem ;):rolleyes:

    Actually, I'd call it a poor substitute for a Tivo, but maybe that's just me :p:)
     
  17. Aug 21, 2007 #17 of 141
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    Agreed.

    Which is why it needs the addition of the cable Tivo software, which partnered with three tuners and the basically decent hardware platform should make it very nearly perfect. :up:
     
  18. Aug 21, 2007 #18 of 141
    mikerr

    mikerr TiVoCentral.co.uk

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    What ? you'll be saying there's no tooth fairy next! ;)
     
  19. Aug 21, 2007 #19 of 141
    stevencarpenter

    stevencarpenter New Member

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    There are a couple more alternatives that are being missed in the very useful debate.

    The first is broadband TV / IPTV and the second is free sat (the BBC and ITV initiative for HD content).

    I think if the guys in Oz can get the volumes of the STB's up, as they use the same TV standards as us (much closer then the US for instance) then there is a possibility of a premium market in the UK with the early adoptor tech heads. I'd buy another one without a second thought, Sky and Virgins offerings are still pants.

    The problem about the UK is its not Europe and without a strategy to do Europe (much harder than multiple states in the USA) then it is going to be hard to see it happen, unless its on the back of a UK service provider.

    I have been using Apple TV for a while and the you tube funcitionality is very good, with the iminent arrival of content in the UK iTune store I think the model for TiVo is to find a triple play broadband provider, like Carphone Warehouse, and then leverage the delivery and PPV/VoD with Amazon.

    I'm sure its not dead, not yet, just TiVo made it much harder as they failed to market Series 1 to the UK the first time around.
     
  20. Aug 21, 2007 #20 of 141
    TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    Is it? I think you'll find that TiVo's market share of DVRs is plummetting in the US as cable and satellite providers ship their own systems. One estimate projects a 2% (TWO) in 2010!

    Basically why would you, as a cable company CEO, chose to pay TiVo for their interface which might gain you a handful of hard-core techies, over your own in-house (ie, free solution) which is at least as good as the market leader and one everyone knows (Sky+). You wouldn't.
     

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