Oberservations of Failed Hi Def TTG Transfers

Discussion in 'TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo' started by HDTiVo, Nov 17, 2007.

  1. Apr 1, 2008 #321 of 369
    tspofford

    tspofford New Member

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    I'm pretty sure that's not the issue. In none of the cases that I can think of did the circumstances for that apply.

    I managed to record another program that I'd been having the issue with, on a different network that the previous one. Again, started it manually 5 minutes late, thereby skipping the hypothetical code, and again it recorded through to the end.

    Is there a Tivo programmer - or if not, a knowledgable consumer (as opposed to WAGers) - here that can tell us for sure whether the machine uses (a) the system time or (b) code in the feed or (c) both to start recording? As I mentioned earlier, it starts recording on the hour but often catches a little bit (10-30 seconds) of between program promotions. Normally this wouldn't be an issue to end users but if it's enough to catch some problem code (again, hypothetical), it might be key.

    tim
     
  2. Apr 1, 2008 #322 of 369
    HDTiVo

    HDTiVo Not so Senior Member

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    I guess 9.3 isn´t out that long to too many people, so there´s no word on whether the P-frame anomoly transfer failures are fixed?

    Reading the last two months worth of comments, I want to mention that the p-frame anomoly transfer failures are not associated with playback glitches.

    This thread has now incorporated quite a large variety of transfer failures of different types, and it is important to recognize that we may be responding to a failure of a different type than the one we think we are.

    I do think the p-frame anomoly one chokes the TiVo at the TiVo (not at TD) and the recent evidence is all supporting that. I think the "bad" recordings come from combination(s) of broadcaster equipment and cable equipment, and thus it is observed or not observed depending on which system/source you are using. It is also why it is sometimes channel dependent for some people. I still don´t think anyone has reported a true 720p p-frame anomoly.

    With the manual recording skip n minutes idea, is it just working on shows which transfer fail in the first <n minutes? Surely it does not help for a failure well into the program? It might be interesting to use both tuners to manually record the same broadcast of the same program, starting at different times, and compare transfer results.

    One of the most interesting comments has been that sometimes re-broadcasts of the same program fail at the same point.(?) I can remember one instance where I had two different programs (same channel, same night) fail to transfer on the same frame of the same commercial: ie. the commercial was broadcast during both programs and the p-frame failure occured at the same frame of both instances of that commercial. Only one data point though.
     
  3. Apr 1, 2008 #323 of 369
    tspofford

    tspofford New Member

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    What the hell is a "p-frame anomoly"? What's a p-frame?

    All of my failures have been in the first <n minutes>. Absent more information than we have now, I'm guessing other failures reported by others at, say, 20 minutes in are caused by something else.

    Yes, that is correct or, to be as accurate as I can, at what SEEMS to be the same point. There may be a difference of seconds or fractions of a second but if so, I cannot discern it. Sometimes the re-broadcasts are weeks later. They still fail to transfer at the same point.

    I just upgraded yesterday to 2.6. I don't know yet whether it will make any difference. I haven't seen a failed transfer yet, but in the past they have been sufficiently unpredictable that it could take a couple of weeks of regular use to get a good sense. I'll do that; just don't expect a report right away - unless I get another failure right away.

    That may be consistent with what I'm seeing, as described in this and earlier messages. Superficially it is.

    Tim S
     
  4. Apr 1, 2008 #324 of 369
    greg_burns

    greg_burns Now in HD

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    See post #1. ;)

    If you install VideoReDo, you can see the different frame types.

    View->Display On Screen Information.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-2
     
  5. Apr 1, 2008 #325 of 369
    tspofford

    tspofford New Member

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    I tried VideoReDo a few weeks ago. It told me nothin' that I understood. I'll try again.

    Ahhhh, THAT helps enormously! You could have written it in English and I still probably wouldn't understand. :)

    Tim S
     
  6. Apr 1, 2008 #326 of 369
    greg_burns

    greg_burns Now in HD

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    Doesn't mean much to me either. But I do know, if you load a .tivo file in VR and step frame by frame it will show you whether it is I, B, or P. From what I've read that controls things like when you fast fwd with your Tivo. It can only skip fwd to certain frames types. That is why ffwd with an S3 is different than with an S2. S2s had control over where these frame were (and how many) because it created the digital stream. The S3/TivoHD just has to work with what comes from the cable co. That is why it trickplay features sometimes feels sloppy w/ an S3. compared to an S2.

    That is my layman understanding. Probably not right, but helps me to understand these types of conversations. :)
     
  7. Apr 2, 2008 #327 of 369
    HDTiVo

    HDTiVo Not so Senior Member

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    As a general comment to those who have brought up PC to S3 problems, TiVo did say that HD content (other than .tivo) ´would be troublesome in this initial release.

    One little specific observation is your successful transfers seem to be encoded at 6GB/hr and the unsuccessful ones at 8.5GB/hr. Chances are you need to search for parameters that happen to work well, at least for now.
     
  8. Apr 2, 2008 #328 of 369
    HDTiVo

    HDTiVo Not so Senior Member

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    I have had p-frame failures occur near the end of programs, ie. 57 min.

    Chances are that later failures aren´t often observed because some earlier failure point already occured. It might be interesting to use partial MRVs to start a TTC transfer after a failure point to see if another one gets hit later in the program.

    Another idea about manual recording... how about recording a program simultaneously OTA and from cable source to compare?
     
  9. Apr 2, 2008 #329 of 369
    HDTiVo

    HDTiVo Not so Senior Member

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    It is the backing up (rewind, etc.) that is a problem. Of course, TiVo FF involves some backing up. ;)

    -----

    VR has a setting somewhere that turns on/off the I/P/B frame indicator. If it isn´t accessible via a right click in the video window, its buried somewhere in the settings. So if you don´t see the little letter in the upper right corner, that´s why.
     
  10. Apr 2, 2008 #330 of 369
    greg_burns

    greg_burns Now in HD

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    View->Display On Screen Information.
     
  11. Apr 2, 2008 #331 of 369
    kas25

    kas25 Member

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    I have not had failed recording using Tivo Decoder in awhile as well.
     
  12. Apr 2, 2008 #332 of 369
    leiff

    leiff Active Member

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    since 2.6 desktop upgrade, many of my programs transferred from my s3 onto my pc are misbehaving using wmp11. progress bar maxes out around the 20 minute mark disabling all navigation ability after that. Trying to re-record same program results in duplication of said problem. Called Tivo phone support. They suggested a network problem but did not offer a solution. Also suggested using a different media player but could not recommend one.-phone support=Waste of time. One more problem I've noticed that doesn't bother me but may be symptomatic of something else- when transferring program from s3 to pc, the size of said file will not update and will not show past 12 MB on main tivo desktop screen untill transfer is completely finished. I mention this because 5.1 desktop did not have this problem. I've tried reinstalling tivo desktop. Should I try reinstalling wmp11 ? How about using a player besides wmp11 that works good with HD content? Is anyone else having these problems?
     
  13. Apr 2, 2008 #333 of 369
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    VideoLAN VLC is a good start. The main advantage is it has all it's own built in codecs and doesn't rely on codecs and the codec weighting system in Windows and plays just about everything you throw at it, and it works on multiple platforms besides Windows as well. Down side is the interface is a little clunky. But if nothing else it's good for testing purposes to help determine if you have a WIndows codec issue or not.
     
  14. Apr 2, 2008 #334 of 369
    leiff

    leiff Active Member

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    Can you confirm VLC will play tivo recordings? I thought I tried that already. Or if it needs codecs what are they. I know media player classic wouldn't play tivo files even after I installed k-lite codec pac.
     
  15. Apr 2, 2008 #335 of 369
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    You have to decrypt .TiVo files to unencrypted .mpg files 1st but that's a quick step. Many tools available to do that, for example Tivo Decoder UI. If you prefer command line you can use tivodecode. If you want 1 step downloads + decrypts you can use kmttg
     
  16. Apr 2, 2008 #336 of 369
    greg_burns

    greg_burns Now in HD

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  17. Apr 2, 2008 #337 of 369
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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  18. Apr 2, 2008 #338 of 369
    ghken

    ghken New Member

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    Maybe I can be the first to chime in with some positive results. A few minutes ago I discovered that I'd been updated to 9.3, so I started a transfer of one of my problem NBC shows that previously failed within the first few seconds because of the consecutive P frames.

    So far the transfer has gone far beyond the previous fail point and is still going. I'm currently at 10% and the full download should be done in a little more than an hour. Very encouraging.

    The only thing that seems a bit strange is the displayed file size is not incrementing on the main Tivo Desktop screen as the transfer progresses. It stopped at 8MB, which I'm pretty sure was the point that the transfer used to fail. But the transfer status window is still showing progress being made with the Status and Time Estimate readings incrementing appropriately.

    Fingers are crossed until it completes, but it looks like the P frame problem may be resolved.
     
  19. Apr 3, 2008 #339 of 369
    richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info. :up:

    Still on v9.2a, but I noticed that after upgrading to TiVo Desktop (Plus) v2.6 that the displayed file size transfer also stops at an initial figure (5MB, 8MB, etc.) and never updates until the transfer is finished.

    Let us know if your transfer was successful!
     
  20. Apr 3, 2008 #340 of 369
    kas25

    kas25 Member

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    I sometimes see the same so I just keeping clicking on the actual file to make sure its getting bigger.
     

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