Oberservations of Failed Hi Def TTG Transfers

Discussion in 'TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo' started by HDTiVo, Nov 17, 2007.

  1. threeeyedtoad

    threeeyedtoad New Member

    12
    2
    Jan 11, 2008

    Advertisements

    I also have no special network setup. I've no internal firewall, nor do I employ anti-virus software when trying to TTG. Yet I encounter errors on certain programs, which so far seem to have many sequential "P" frames in the portion of the show which actually transfers from my S3 TiVo.

    Based on absolutely no actual insight into the problem being investigated by the TiVo engineers, I'm inclined to think the problems are due to MPEGs on the TiVo that have been created from odd transmission issues from the cable providers (that is, odd MPEG transport stream cadences). I would like to hypothesize (again, based on no actual data points) that this problem should only occur for users who are using CableCards in their S3 TiVos. AFAIK, the CableCards basically allow the incoming digital stream from the cable service to be written directly to HD (no digital-to-analog-to-digital conversion, as when TiVos are used with cable boxes), so the TiVo is not responsible for transcoding the MPEG, and therefore has nothing to say about how the MPEG stream is written to disk.

    Further, since this hypothesized error in the MPEG stream would likely be caused by and dependent on the cable provider, and the source channel, it would potentially vary from cable carrier to cable carrier. I know I've seen reports in this thread from some Cablevision subscribers encountering problems. As a Verizon FiOS subscriber, I can offer my own experience up as potential evidence of transmission errors from that provider as well.

    So... by means of a straw poll -- are there any S3 TiVo users out there using a cable box that have experienced the inability to transfer programs? I'm gonna guess "no". Conversely, are there any S3 TiVo users out there having problems that are NOT using CableCards? I'm gonna guess "no"...
     
  2. tv444

    tv444 New Member

    60
    0
    Feb 16, 2008
    I am not running any anti virus software. Plus, Fox network programs seem to be the only ones I can download wityhout problems. I have done about 15 from FOX with zero proplems.
     
  3. tv444

    tv444 New Member

    60
    0
    Feb 16, 2008
    My programs come from an over the air antenna. CBS, NBC and ABC seem to be problematic but FOX downloads without a single problem so far, during 15 or so downloads. On those other networks I have been unable to get a single program to completely download.
     
  4. dcahoe

    dcahoe TiVoPlayList Author

    375
    0
    Jan 28, 2006
    Louisville, KY
    This problem is not new and is certainly not limited to the S3 or HD TiVos. It has been around as long as TiVo has allowed TiVoToGo going back to software version 7.x on the Series 2 machines.

    I only have Series 2 machines and have no cable boxes, just straight coax cable (analog). I have had only 2 shows in the past 2 years that I could not transfer. They played fine on my TiVo's and would even MRV between them, but would fail at a certain point when transferring to a PC. All the various methods failed at the same point, and I could see some slight noise at that point in the show if watching it, but the TiVo would play through it.

    I believe TiVoJerry has said that TiVo is working on a fix, and that's great. It seems to be that when the TiVo is transcoding a show for transfer to a PC as a .tivo (mpg) file, if it encounters certain anomolies it just quits the transfer. It seems that all of the new people with HD TiVo's are having more problems than ever, but maybe this is just because the files are larger and have more data to process per frame (resolution, etc) and the TiVo seems to abort easier.
     
  5. tv444

    tv444 New Member

    60
    0
    Feb 16, 2008

    Advertisements

    I am OTA. Recently, I got done downloading 15 shows from Fox. Three of them were recorded during a period when my antenna was laying flat on the roof. It got knocked down in high wind. Those three shows had about 20-30 instances of macro blocking in them but yet they downloaded in their entirety.

    In the month since I have been using Tivo To Go I have only been able to download from Fox.

    ABC, NBC, CBS, and two other independent local stations are not down loadable for me. The transfer stops anywhere from 40 to 95 percent.
     
  6. Laserfan

    Laserfan Member

    440
    4
    Apr 25, 2000
    USA
    This makes sense, though I have had some pretty ugly glitches in my OTA programs yet they've still transferred OK. Guess I'd rather be lucky than smart! ;)

    Just to clarify, since you're the author of the (terrific, thanks!) TivoPlayList application: it's your understanding then that the Tivo box(es) do always, when they transfer a show out-of the Tivo hdd and across the network, first embed the MAK somehow into the program which is what we later have to know in order to convert from .TiVo to .mpg. And further, that they do this on-the-fly and abort at the Tivo, i.e. it's the Tivo that's aborting transmission (so TPL won't help over TD or any other tool).

    I do believe that cable boxes are a whole 'nuther can-of-worms i.e. I don't have cable but used to have digital cable and it was unpredictable as heck.
     
  7. dcahoe

    dcahoe TiVoPlayList Author

    375
    0
    Jan 28, 2006
    Louisville, KY
    Thanks for the positive feedback.

    Yes, that is exactly my opinion. So a fix will need to be made in a TiVo software update, not in any PC software.
     
  8. Laserfan

    Laserfan Member

    440
    4
    Apr 25, 2000
    USA
    Thanks for confirming!
     
  9. tv444

    tv444 New Member

    60
    0
    Feb 16, 2008
    How much longer of a short while?
     
  10. kas25

    kas25 Member

    413
    2
    Mar 10, 2003
    NJ
    I just started downloading on my Mac and here is my observation. HD network show worked flawlessly. HD movie (over 13 Gig) stopped at about 12.8 Gig twice. SD movie worked fine. I originally thought maybe it was the size of the file but reading this forum, I'll assume its the movie and try another? I am getting the files from Fios.
     
  11. sathead

    sathead Member

    187
    8
    Jan 12, 2008
    If the same movie is showing again, re-record it and try downloading the new recording. It's worked for me in the past...
     
  12. tspofford

    tspofford New Member

    19
    0
    Feb 26, 2008
    I've downloaded re-broadcasts of the same program and then transferred with TTG. They fail at precisely the same point as the previous copy, generally right at the beginning. I believe it's code in the original file on the broadcaster's end, possibly some kind of start-of-program code. There's no option to start a program late so I'm going to try to catch one of the ones I've had repeated problems with and start it a couple of minutes into the program and see what happens. FWIW, I've experienced this with a couple of different HD Austin City Limits and a couple of Crossroads, as well as 1 or 2 other programs. Carrier is Comcast. If Development/Tech Support is reading this I'll be happy to provide some files for examination although I assume they've got all they need.

    Tim Spofford
     
  13. kas25

    kas25 Member

    413
    2
    Mar 10, 2003
    NJ
    I just tried a movie twice and made it about 2/3 of the way through when it restarts. Others just stop at about 90%. Very frustrating.
     
  14. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

    10,722
    0
    May 1, 2006
    Dallas, TX
    Unless you know the next time the show airs and set it up with manual recording.
     
  15. tspofford

    tspofford New Member

    19
    0
    Feb 26, 2008
    How (please)? That's what I was trying to find but only found Start on Time, Start 1 Minute Early, 5 minutes early, etc. (I do realize I can make a point of being there, waiting for it to start, and then hitting Record, but since I alluded to that in my original post, I assume you're talking about something else.)
     
  16. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

    10,722
    0
    May 1, 2006
    Dallas, TX
    If you know when and on what channel the show airs...

    Go to Tivo Central -> Find Programs -> Record by Time or Channel -> Set up Manual Recording.

    You'll only be able to set the start and stop times in 5 min. increments.
     
  17. tspofford

    tspofford New Member

    19
    0
    Feb 26, 2008
    Thanks, Steve. I've never used that function, didn't know it was there. I've set up Clapton's 2007 Crossroads Festival, one of the programs that has repeatedly failed (and one that I most want) to start 5 minutes late, on Sunday. Will see what happens -- possibly not much because there aren't currently any more HD showings scheduled on my local PBS so this one will be the LD version.
     
  18. kas25

    kas25 Member

    413
    2
    Mar 10, 2003
    NJ
    Can someone please explain the "I.P. transfer method" in layman's terms? I use Tivo Dedode Mgr on my Mac and with varied success and I would love to try this method. Thanks.
     
  19. richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

    9,078
    69
    Jan 4, 2003
    I haven’t used the I.P. transfer method with a Mac, but I don’t know of any reason it would be different than that of a PC. If it doesn’t work, let us know and I’m sure an Apple expert can help.

    To perform I.P. transfers (in lieu of using TiVo Desktop) you’ll need two things: your TiVo Media Access Key (MAK) and your TiVo’s I.P. address.

    MAK: Go to TiVo Central > Messages and Settings > Account and System Information > Media Access Key. It can also be obtained by logging into your TiVo account at http://www.tivo.com > Manage My Account > Related Links (RH column).

    I.P. address: Go to TiVo Central > Messages and Settings > Settings > Phone and Network. Or you can get it by opening TiVo Desktop > Server > TiVo Server Properties > Access Control. ​

    Once you have that information open your Internet browser. Type in:

    https://<tivo ip>/ (or if you want to be technical, https://<tivo ip>/nowplaying/index.html) ​

    NOTE: The "s" for a secure connection in https:// is important otherwise you&#8217;ll just get a standard TiVo information screen.

    You may get a certificate warning; accept the certificate.

    A login screen will appear. Type in:

    Username: &#8220;tivo&#8221; (w/o the parenthesis)
    Password: your MAK number. ​

    The &#8220;Now Playing&#8221; screen will appear. To the right you&#8217;ll see download links for each program. If you click on one the login screen will appear again. Enter the same login information as above and your normal download program should take over. You&#8217;ll need to save the program to disk, indicating where you want to save it (usually your &#8220;My TiVo Recordings&#8221; folder.)

    To avoid the repeated login screen, I have my computer save the info for the next time so I don&#8217;t have to keep filling it out.

    For going the other way, iTunes-to-TiVo, there&#8217;s a program called Playlist Exporter. I&#8217;ve never used it, but hear that it works well.

    FYI, for PC users there is a very easy to use program called TivoPlayList that has basically automated this process and also has some nice added features such as disk space tool, etc.

    Hope that helps!
     
  20. kas25

    kas25 Member

    413
    2
    Mar 10, 2003
    NJ
    Thank you very much. Before I try this, is there a better chance of the download succeeding or is it the consenus that its an issue that needs to be fixed by Tivo? Thanks again.
     

Share This Page

spam firewall

Advertisements