Now the ads are p***ing me off

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by james.92, Dec 4, 2007.

  1. Jan 9, 2008 #141 of 384
    RobertJ

    RobertJ New Member

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    I already paid $800 for my Series3, plus $300 for a transferred lifetime subscription. This is a premium price for what should be a premium product. It's mine, and I paid for it. Tivo doesn't have the right to decide to start pushing extra advertisements on me.

    If I paid $1100 for some other consumer electronics device, would it be OK for that manufacturer to start pushing advertisements on me because that company wasn't t profitable?

    How about if Apple takes a turn for the worse? Can they start pushing a "nonintrusive" 10 second advertisement on my iPod between every song to generate extra income? How about at the end of every tenth song? What's acceptable?

    How about if I buy the latest $5000 plasma TV? Can that manufacturer start deciding to start pushing additional advertisements on me when I turn the TV on if it's not doing very well financially? How about displaying advertisements when the TV is turned "off"?

    If you don't mind extra advertisements, then I'm happy for you. However, I do, and quite a bit. I really dislike this apologetic attitude that "Tivo can do no wrong," or "Tivo is in difficult financial straits so it's entitled to milk us dry with advertisements."

    Tivo can choose to be an advertiser-supported model, or it can choose to be a premium product that charges for subscriptions. I'd even be happy with options, where you could choose to save $5 month by allowing advertisements. However, it is not OK for Tivo to start forcing advertisements on people after they've already spent the money on the hardware and/or the subscription.
     
  2. Jan 9, 2008 #142 of 384
    DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS Active Member

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    Is impeding "normal functions" a prerequisite for not liking something?
     
  3. Jan 9, 2008 #143 of 384
    DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS Active Member

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    If possible, would you please define, in numbers, "small percentage", "large percentage" and "miniscule group"? Was this info published in TiVo's earnings report? If not, how did you determine the group size? Counting posts in the forum? No sarcasm intended.
     
  4. Jan 9, 2008 #144 of 384
    Fixer

    Fixer Fixin' it!!

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    The Great...
    I'm glad someone besides me called him on this. I envision a really long arm and... oh, nevermind. :cool:

    ___
     
  5. Jan 9, 2008 #145 of 384
    wierdo

    wierdo New Member

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    I pay for the newspaper. I pay for National Geographic. I pay for Wired. They all have ads. Why? Because what I pay them is not enough to cover the cost of what they're providing to me. They make up the difference (or some of it, in TiVo's case) with ads.

    Hell, I pay for Internet service, and a hell of a lot more (over four times as much) than I pay TiVo (for four boxes), yet my ISP is rolling out broken DNS servers that redirect me to ads if I look up a nonexistent domain. That one I'm pissed about because it actively breaks the functionality of my service, unlike what TiVo does.

    I do agree that the interface is getting slow on S2 boxes. It's (probably) not due to the ads, though. Get a THD or S3 and you can stop whining about slowness. ;)

    And if you bought anything but an S1 (pre 2.0, that is) and complain about TiVo "suddenly" "pushing ads on" you, you lose. You can dislike it, sure, but it hasn't changed, so you're basically just tilting at windmills. Windmills you knew were there from the start. There have been ads nearly since day one, what with TiVomatic and the gold star items, then on to showcases.

    I will admit that I found the gold star menu to be exceedingly annoying, but only because it made it harder to put the thing in standby. My Harmony remote has eliminated that irritation, thanks to TiVo so thoughtfully having an 'off' code. :p

    And just for what it's worth, on a per-DVR basis, I'm paying much less to TiVo than I would be my cable company, who charges a nice $9.99 "DVR service" fee on top of the box fee. Go figure. (and theirs doesn't work half the time; I know, as I have one that I really should give back!) A DVR is apparently a service to them, too. And DirecTV, although their charge is much more reasonable!
     
  6. Jan 9, 2008 #146 of 384
    RoyK

    RoyK New Member

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    Configure your PC/Router to use a different DNS then. You're not stuck with the one your ISP provides. For example OpenDNS
    TiVo's crappy software "upgrade" degraded the performance of almost a grand's worth of my hardware and your solution is to buy more of their equipment?
     
  7. Jan 9, 2008 #147 of 384
    wierdo

    wierdo New Member

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    If you consider added features to be crappy, perhaps you ought not. Personally, I like the features. I find the increased indexing that allows things like the new Wishlist search features to be quite handy.

    As far as using OpenDNS, that's all well and good, but some of us can't afford the latency of far away DNS servers. (and OpenDNS is broken, although in a different way) I'd be much happier if the local ones worked. :p Telling me that is like telling you "don't click on the ads if they bug you." Sure, it's a workaround, but not one you'll be satisfied with. Most people would be OK with it, just as most people (probably) are OK with just not clicking on TiVo's ads, banner ads, or whatever else.

    I do think it would be nice if TiVo could figure out a way to give the people who want it the choice of when to upgrade. Unfortunately for those of us who would care to take advantage of it, they see options like that as confusing to the normal user they consider their bread and butter.

    And just for what it's worth, I've spent a crap ton of money on TiVo hardware and service (and upgrades) over the years, too. Personally, I still think it's worth every penny, having tried the other options on occasion. I'd rather see a few ads than suffer through my cable company's box that can't be bothered to record anything reliably, has less hard drive space than a stock THD, and costs more per month to boot. Hell, its interface (a DCT-3416 running Passport) is easily as slow as the S2 nightlight, only in a worse way. My TCD140 is faster than the 540 at most operations, FWIW.
     
  8. Jan 9, 2008 #148 of 384
    ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    great then. You should be good to go with a VCR and no guide data. You can pick one up for 30$ at your nearest retailer. have fun :D
     
  9. Jan 9, 2008 #149 of 384
    ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    that is as accurate as my SWAG based on life experience and reading other's opinions is going to get.
     
  10. RobertJ

    RobertJ New Member

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    Jun 1, 2003
    Nope. I subscribe to National Geographic too. I knew when I did that it would contain advertisements, and in return I'd get a great magazine at a reduced price.

    I had and still have a Series 1. The only ad was a one-line gold-star text on the home menu for an advertisement. Slightly obnoxious, but not terribly intrusive.

    I now have a Series 3. It was fine for about nine months, but then started rolling out new ads with the latest service "update" around October. Now I have banner ads on the main menu, banner ads when I fast forward, and banner advertisements at the end of the show. Just tonight, I noticed the latest revolting advertisement: a thumbs-up advertisement that makes a loud chime when you fast forward through it. All of these advertisements are doing the equivalent of jumping up and down and saying "HEY LOOK AT ME!"

    That wasn't part of the bargain when I bought either the Series 1 or the Series 3 (both with fully paid-up lifetime subscriptions). These advertisements aren't benefiting me in the least, and they are degrading the entire experience.

    I think we agree in principle... there's nothing wrong per se with using advertising as your revenue model, whether for a magazine or a DVR. But there needs to be full disclosure upfront. If you're going to sell something for many hundreds of dollars, and then choose to start making changes after people have bought it by pumping more and more advertisements, then you shouldn't be surprised when your customers get upset.

    Again, with the iPod analogy: I could start a company that gives away really cheap audio players, with the tradeoff being that you have to listen to ads. Fair enough. However, if I sell a premium audio player with no ads, but then decide later that I'm not making enough money, it's not fair or right for me to change the rules mid-game and start pushing ads on the people who already bought the ad-free version.

    From everything I've heard about Tivo's latest president, it's just going to get worse and worse. I think the company has jumped the shark.
     
  11. ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

    25,527
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    Jan 2, 2004

    so if your S3 had ads right from the moment you turned it on that would be different? You do of course know that TiVo ads have been around for years and not exactly a secret.

    and on the guided setup screen there is the txt of terms of service - ads are mentioned in that - but it is many paragraphs of reading all kinds of terms - not a simple bullet point of highlights
     
  12. RobertJ

    RobertJ New Member

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    Jun 1, 2003
    You do know of course that Tivo has been increasing the quantity and intrusiveness of advertisements?

    Please re-read my post. As I said, I have a Series 1 that has had some one-line on the home page. It's been that way for many years.

    That's entirely different from the latest advertisements. If you don't understand the difference, then I'm sorry for you.
     
  13. DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS Active Member

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    Yes. It would be a completely different beast if TiVo advertised (ironic) its service as a vehicle for advertising.

    Yes. I know that, but if I was a first time user, and I didn't receive and ad on my box until after the 30 day trial period, I would be pretty pissed the first time I did receive one.

    Exactly! That's the point. The bad part of any deal is usually buried in the fine print...
     
  14. DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS Active Member

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    I just turned on the TV, pressed the TiVo Central button, and something looked weird to me. There are now two menu items that are advertising something on TiVo Central :mad:

    One of them is advertising a TiVo service through a third party, and the other one is a straight-up advertisement. Both are links to buy something.

    If I am seeing/figuring this correctly, there are 8 menu items on my TC screen. Two of them are links to spend more money. Hmm. Isn't that 25 percent of my TiVo Central screen?...
     
  15. wierdo

    wierdo New Member

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    While I didn't know there would be ads when I bought my S1, every TiVo I've gotten since then I've known would come with ads. After my first S2, I knew there would be more ads than just the gold star at the bottom of the main menu.

    I do agree that there has been a change in degree in the last five years, but not in character.
     
  16. Langree

    Langree The Gimp

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    Freezinmyass...
    It's still there and is someone doesn't bother to read the Terms before clicking ok, it's their problem.

    I just looked at this and again say, so what? The items are both at the bottom of the screen, they aren't inner mingled with the menu choices, I don't need to cursor over them to get past them.

    Really, I hardly ever pay that much attention to TiVo Central to begin with.
     
  17. ShoutingMan

    ShoutingMan Member

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    Jan 6, 2008
    As a soon-to-be Tivo user, I'm curious -- and a wee bit concerned -- about the prospect of ads in the Tivo system. I'm even more bothered by the suggestion made earlier that the ads are not presented until after the 30-day return-period, indicating Tivo doesn't want me to have an informed understanding of how their product really works until it's too late.

    I'm not bothered by ads in principle; but if they take away screen space program functionality, that's not good.

    Well, we'll see. I've just got the 1 yr sub, and the unit was free, so it's not that big of a deal if the system turns out to be overwhelmed by ads. And if they're unobtrusive then I won't mind.
     
  18. DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS Active Member

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    Great attitude! I'd love to do business with you someday.

    You state that YOU don't have to "cursor over" the ads. Did you ever consider that maybe the ads impede the navigation of other users? Or are you just concerned that your navigational experience is not disturbed? For people that open TiVo Central to get to "Messages and Settings", the ads remove the ability to get to the messages and settings screen in two button presses. I'm sure you'll be pretty pissed when it gets to the point where pressing the TiVo button twice gets you an advertisement instead of the Now Playing list.


    I'll regurgitate your comment: So what? Just because you don't frequent TC doesn't mean that other's use TiVo the way you do.
     
  19. DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS Active Member

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    I was pointing out that if the ads are held back for the 30 trial period, I feel that that is deceptive. Hopefully you can keep track, and report back us when you do see an ad.

    You will not be overwhelmed by ads, and TiVo has gone out of their way to to not force you to navigate around the ads. One exception is in my last post. As much as I hate the ads, the TiVo service is absolutely wonderful, and I would not cancel my subscriptions over them. My breaking point will probably be when an ad pops up before I am able to view a menu, or complete a function, without dismissing an ad.

    Most of the arguing in this thread is based on principal. As you can see, there are many forum members who will try and convice you that the ads are a petty thing to complain about - even when you state that the ads do bother you.
     
  20. Langree

    Langree The Gimp

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    Apr 29, 2004
    Freezinmyass...
    Do you really spend that much time fiddling with the settings that it irks you to have to press a button a couple more times?
     

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