Now the ads are p***ing me off

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by james.92, Dec 4, 2007.

  1. DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS Active Member

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    I also don't understand why there are people here that tell me the ads don't bother me.
     
  2. Lensman

    Lensman Member

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    No, no, they're not saying that. They're saying that complaining about the ads we're being too picky.

    Now, let me not deceive you. I think the ads are fine. I'm sure that my opinion is colored by the fact that Tivo was a market innovator and now stands alone in keeping me from having to put up with the evil cableco DVR.

    BTW, let's not forget to add Microsoft's UltimateTV to the list of competitive failures in this marketplace.
     
  3. DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS Active Member

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    Even with the clarification, no one can argue that what I perceive to be annoying is NOT annoying. Perception of the additional TiVo menu items is subjective. I personally I HATE them, but I respect that other people don't hate them.

    On this board there is another thread, where a poster (Zeo if I remember correctly), has made it clear that some of the animated ads take up too much screen real estate, and interfere with his enjoyment of the show being broadcast. He stated that he will probably not watch the network when they air that particular show again. Additionally, he is going to complain to the network. Both actions are appropriate responses to a situation that he feels is unacceptable.

    My problem is this: Since it was his invisible line that was crossed, it's justifiable for him to publically state this, but when another poster's invisible line, that is set lower than his line, is crossed, it has to be pointed out that the person with the lower threshold is just not perceiving things the "right way". In other words his way. This is hypocritical. Live and let live. Everyone has an opinion, and just becasue it's been posted here, doesn't mean that someone has to try and dispute it. It's not like someone is claiming that 2+2=5.

    Getting back to the animated ads: I disagree with Zeo's opinion that the animated ads are a reason to stop watching a show, but I did not chastise, or attempt to tell him that he is wrong. It bothers him, and he is taking action that he feels is appropriate. Kudos!

    With all that said, I really dislike the TiVo ads. They annoy me. I also feel ripped off that I pay for a service that includes ads. It made me mad when someone posted that the ads don't appear until after the 30 day trail period is up. I don't know if this is accurate information, but if it is, arguing that you want to cancel your subscription, without penalty, holds a lot more weight if no ads were displayed during the trial period. The ads are not new, they are definitely part of the user interface, and to hold them back for the trial period is deceptive because it does not give an accurate representation of the real TiVo interface. Shame on TiVo if they are really doing this. Again, I don't know if that information is accurate, as I have no way of confirming this behavior - not without joining up as a new, never subscribed customer.

    I am a very devoted TiVo fan, and I have spent a lot of money with them in the approximately seven years I have been a subscriber. I will NOT cancel my TiVo service until my invisible line is crossed, and frankly, I am not sure where that line sits yet. It hasn't been crossed, and it will take a lot to actually push me over it, but with each additional menu item / ad, it gets closer. Once it is crossed, I will be gone. Not a threat: Just a fact that I hope TiVo is interested in hearing.

    Don't you think that TiVo wants to hear this type of detailed feedback? Granted, the demographics can't be taken into account, but as a general "gauge" I would think that they welcome people's opinions. Especially if it might one day lead to losing a subscription.
     
  4. kmill14

    kmill14 New Member

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    Just to clarify, do you find the advertisements themselves annoying, or the fact that TiVo gives you the ability to click and watch them annoying? Compared to Internet advertising, would you rate it as more or less intrusive? Same question for those pop-up ads at the bottom of TV shows (done by the networks).

    In my opinion, Tivo still gives you the ability to skip all of those commercials located in your shows. That has not changed. The menus include options to watch commercials or not.

    Also, I am sure TiVo loves the feedback everyone on this board gives. I think they have made a very serious effort not to alter your ability to do everything you do today with a TiVo interface. They haven't forced additional clicking that I have seen, nor have they forced additional fast-forwarding, and they have not shrunk your menu guide (like comcast).

    Believe me...if you are not aware of Comcast's butchering of its guides with ad placement, you should check it out.
     
  5. Fraser+Dief

    Fraser+Dief New Member

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    Nov 18, 2005
    Otttawa, Canada

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    Simply, ads should *never* appear in a UI or content situation. When I drive my car, I should not have to scour the dashboard to find the gas gauge and speedometer amongst the ads pasted there. When I use my word processor, the menu shouldn't read Cut, Copy, Buy Coke, Paste.

    The Series 2 ad delivery to Canada has been on a different schedule than the US. You had ads long before we did.

    Dude. Those are *truths*. Sorry to interfere with your blind love of Tivo:

    Guide data and approx. 10 channels missing for almost *THREE* months (and counting, I'll be shocked if they fix this before April 2008):
    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5669118#post5669118
     
  6. ah30k

    ah30k Well-Known Member

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    Point me to any evidence of bugs not fixed for over a year or the entire staff working on ad delivery. I call bullsh1t on you lame claim to 'truth'.

    I am no fan-boy, it is just useless claims of truth on exaggerated issues make you look foolish.
     
  7. astrohip

    astrohip Well-Known Raconteur TCF Club

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    These are such disingenuous complaints. I think that's why people get so vehement on both sides of this disagreement. I don't have a problem with the ads. I know there are people that do. No biggie to me that they do. After all, it's not my place to tell someone what bothers them. But to make an argument like "my car doesn't have ads" makes the entire debate so specious . . .

    My car doesn't either, but my newspaper does. And most web pages do. And yet I pay a subscription price for both my paper and ISP. So why ads?

    See how ridiculous my argument sounds?
     
  8. ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    there is nothing hypocritical in what I have done. You want to recast things in your own light to make your side sound better but that just backfires on you.

    IN the the thread I started out querying people about the ads that broadcasters put up over top of the show. They were saying they took up 1/3 rd of the screen. I called BS a ta first but they showed me the Chuck episode(which I had recorded but not watched yet. What Did I do about it? just what you said. I deleted the show and season pass, I emailed the broadcaster and told them why I was no longer watching the show or going to their company website which was the crux of the ad.
    What I did not do was immediately start 4 new threads on the subject complaining about it because that I would consider a waste of my time. I even was done with the original thread as I stated my piece and then did it.

    Still these ads on TiVo threads keep going and only one person has taken action on it. You all can complain all you want about something you say annoys you but until you take specific action that shows the company it is not a viable approach, I and more importantly the company will not take you seriously
     
  9. DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS Active Member

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    You missed my whole point. Everyone's line is in a different place.

    I read the entire thread before making my post. This doesn't change my opinion. I'll state it again: Everyone's line as in a different place.

    I don't like the ads. I have made it known to TiVo that I don't like the ads. At this point in time, I will not cancel my subscription because my line has not been crossed. I am not sure where the breaking point is, but as you found out, once I see it, I will know. That is when I will cancel. This is the risk that TiVo takes every time they take $$ for ads.

    If you don't take me seriously, I will get by. If TiVo doesn't take me seriously, that would be a shame. I am a paying customer that wants to continue to be a paying customer. I have passed along valuable feedback to them. Are you saying that I should cancel my subscription even though I don't want to?
     
  10. corp666

    corp666 New Member

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    Today is your lucky day!

    I am going to give you your first, second, third and fourth and fifth person who has cancelled over their ads.

    First I would like to point out that it is highly unlikely that people who get POed over ads an cancel TiVo are going to hang around these forums just to let others know they cancelled over the ads.

    I came upon this topic whilst doing a random search and got a link from another site. I originally purchased my TiVo in 1999. Yep, waaaay back then. That was before subscriptions were even necessary. I liked it so much I got my brother into it, and we got our parents one for XMas and our sister and grandmother too.

    The first ad I remember was a new section on the TiVo main menu entitled something like "hot free offer from Lexus" and was a short commercial my TiVo had downloaded about how I could win a free Lexus. I called TiVo to complain and the ignoramus just kept parroting "its not an advertisement, its a free offer its different". Right. Shortly after TiVo did the whole "3.0" thing where they added the ability to tranfer shows between TiVos and upload pictures and do remote scheduling. And they started charging more for it. Around this time I noticed additional advertising coming my way. I cancelled my service and told them I thought the fact that I was now paying for data that was essentially free (TiVo does not create the guide data, they just distribute it) and also having them pump ads into my TiVo was too much. They argued with me whether it was ads or "free offers". I told them to shove it and I sold my TiVO. I then built a media PC with a hard drive that is superior to the TiVo in every way (IMO). I can download stuff from the internet and watch it, I can play DVD's, record/store/play Mp3's and pictures, use plug-ins for weather and traffic info, control my lighting and appliances, access it remotely to transfer files, schedule recordings from anywhere, extract and burn any shows I want and much more. And there are no monthly fees, no restrictions on what I can do, no advertising and I can add hard drives to my hearts content (currently have around 2TB of storage). Once my brother saw how much better this was than TiVo, he joined me and did the same thing, cancelling TiVo and letting them know the ads pushed him over the edge. My parents weren't into that level of effort to build an HTPC (and at that time there was really nothing off-the-shelf) so they waited until DirecTV came out with the HR20 and they got one which they like far far more than their TiVo overall. They say the TiVo was easier to use but the integration of the HR20 combined with the fact that it can record two shows at once and has no monthly fee and records in HD and "just works" is much better for them than the series I TiVO ever was. They had lifetime on their TiVo so there was really no cancellation involved, but they elected NOT go continue with TiVo based on our (me and my brother) recommending against TiVo due to the slippery slope argument you guys call false, as well as a cheaper and better performing alternative from DirecTV. We recently (this XMas) just got a 2nd HR20 for my grandmother.

    So now we have no TiVos and overall we are much happier. I initially missed the ease of use of the TiVo but I'd never give up all the features I have now to go back. None of us ever found suggestions very useful so that is a non-issue, and once you know how to use the HR20 I dont think its any harder to use than TiVo - it's just different.

    So, there you go - that sort of puts a dent in your "never heard of anyone cancelling over ads" argument - now you know of five folks.

    Furthermore, I got on this forum years ago. Either I dont remember my account info or it was purged for lack of use - but I really don't recognize any of the posters on here. I remember when TiVolutionary was a regular poster along with Pony and I remember how big a blow it was when TiVolutionary went over to ReplayTV. That was at the very end of my tenure here - when I had started this forum barely had any posts at all. Almost all the people I remember have moved on. That may or may not be because of ads, but it's silly to presume that all of them leaving were because of reasons other than ads. That's akin to sticking one's head in the sand and proclaiming that there cannot be a forest fire surrounding you because you do not see it, therefore it must not exist.

    Probably won't be back around to reply - just dropping in to make this post in response to the quote above. Not saying I won't be back for hate of TiVo or fear of reprisals, I have just moved on from the world of increasing monthly costs that are delivered along with increasing numbers of ads. Good luck to TiVo, from the latest financials I've seen they are going to need it.
     
  11. Fixer

    Fixer Fixin' it!!

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    Why do so many people keep using this analogy? Tivo, newspaper/magazine, and ISPs all have totally different business models that don't even relate to one another.

    The price you pay for a periodical is for the distribution. The physical media is paid for by the advertising. Oh, and you're fooling yourself if you bring up the "Tivo takes a loss on hardware, so ads are justified" argument. Not everyone takes the mail-in rebate that is usually offered, so why should those folks have to put up with the ads? :rolleyes:

    Your ISP is merely a pathway for content, just like cable and satellite TV. Your monthly fee, sans premium fees, pays for the pathway infrastructure and it's maintenance. The content in and of itself is a totally different animal all together, and this what advertising pays for (non-premium stuff).

    The thing about Tivo is that they are blatant example of the "bait and hook" business model. They do not provide any content whatsoever, so there is no reason for it. Imagine buying the latest & greatest coffee pot with all of the advanced bells and whistles, including a pretty LCD readout on the front. Now, envision not being able to brew your morning joe unless you hook the pot up to the 'net and pay a monthly fee for the coffee brewing "service". To top it off, because you ARE hooked the 'net, you're inundated with a barrage of "Head-On, apply directly to the forehead" ads on the pretty LCD display. When you call to complain, the CSR tells you that the ads are necessary so that they can continue to provide the rich brewing experience you have come to know and love. What would you do? :cool:

    At one of our family gatherings this past weekend, someone asked about Tivo. Another member of the family (not me) blurted out, "don't they charge a monthly fee just to record T.V.?" I kindly spoke up and said, "Yes they do. Not only that, but they 'partner' with third parties to send advertisements to the box in the form of extra menu selections, popup ads, FF ads, showcase ads, etc. In addition, you are at their mercy when it comes to recording a show. Someone in the 'chain' may decide that they don't want a show to be recorded. All they have to do is send the Tivo a 'signal' and it won't record." Needless to say, everyone else pretty much said "eww, I'm never getting a Tivo."

    BTW, hi Zeo!! ;) *waves*

    ___
     
  12. ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    funny - TWC here where I am does add in their own commercials for local businesses. That happens pretty much everywhere
    if they are so blatant then it should be easy for you to provide the details of this. I myself found no bait and hook, but ads and a TiVo box clearly stating that paying for a subscription service was needed to use the TiVo.

    did that coffeepot have software that was constantly being upgraded to provide new features. For instance could I play free music videos in the morning while I brew the coffee? Oh, I see - it is just a coffee machine and NOTHING like a DVR or TiVo to be more specific.

    yah those ads are on every menu and on top of the shows themselves and reach out and hit you on the forehead. Wow do you expect to be taken seriously with so much exaggeration? BUT WAIT there's more if you act right away ...
    yah, that happens to me at least once a week if not more. :rolleyes:
    So no one was up for paying the subscription service(which BTW, was clearly known even by people who had little interest in TiVo at your family get together - so much for bait and hook) in the first place and thus all your exaggerating did was just make the group think of , "gee, are we not all so clever" just go in deeper without any real intelligent thought involved.

    so they can now wither Be there promptly at 8pm to watch their show and deal with a whole lot more ads in one show then will show up on the TiVo in 6 months or else get DVRs from the broadcaster and pay them a monthly fee for the DVR anyway, along with the monthly bill in which they hide further digital/DVR charges, and still get ads on those DVRs anyway. :p
     
  13. Fixer

    Fixer Fixin' it!!

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    See, that's the problem right there. Why do people keep referring to TiVo, or any DVR for that matter, as a "service"?

    Zeo: Yes, the fancy coffee pot can play music videos. It even has a stock ticker and a live video stream of "FOX & Friends". ;)

    ___
     
  14. TriBruin

    TriBruin Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Because it is not a one time purchase. When I purchased the Tivo box, I understood that I would have to continue paying a monthly fee to provide me with, not only the guide data, but updates to the core functionality. I consider that a service.

    Edit to add:

    Unless you don't believe your own signature, you also consider Tivo a service also:

     
  15. Kilarney

    Kilarney New Member

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    Pwned.
     
  16. Fixer

    Fixer Fixin' it!!

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    The guide data is only thing I would consider a "service" and is what I am referring to in my signature. From a technical standpoint, the TiVo box should be able to pull guide data from any provider you choose; that is, if the box is properly hacked to do so (theoretical). Think of it as akin to unlocking a cell phone.

    Regarding updates: Does the TiVo agreement promise updates? I haven't read it verbatim, but I bet the word "may" shows up a lot. I'm sure they've also reserved the right to remove "functionality" as they see fit, hence, "TV THEIR way".

    ___
     
  17. Curtis

    Curtis New Member

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    Do they keep the money in separate lockboxes?
     
  18. TriBruin

    TriBruin Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    So your point now is that Tivo DOES offer Service, but you it should be free (or low cost)? Do you think that Tivo gets from the Tribune for free? Tribune SELLS its programing information for a Fee. Yes, there are places to get this information for free, but not in the detail that allows a Tivo to do many of advanced scheduling features (Season Passes, 28 Day Rule, Wishlists, etc.)

    IIRC, MythTV used a "backdoor" to the Zap2it to pull guide data for "FREE". Tribune did not like that people were getting data that they worked hard to collect, without paying for it. That loophole has since been closed, with Tribune offering to allow MythTV to connect, but at a price.

    I have not read the complete agreement either, but I am willing to bet that Tivo has the right (within their agreement) to add or remove features as they feel is appropriate. I doubt this any different than any other software company (Microsoft, Symantec, Oracle, Apple, etc.) Although I am sure someone can point to one, I can not recall any feature they have removed (even if they are somewhat hidden, i.e. 30sec skip.)
     
  19. JaneiR36

    JaneiR36 New Member

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    Not quite! There are websites I used to visit very often but eventually stopped using because they advertised too much, and sometimes the ads included spyware. It was just overwhelming and I no longer felt I could see the content I wanted, even though I really liked it. I switched over to another site with the same kind of information, even paying a subscription fee in one case. They say you get what you pay for, sometimes I am of the (apparently false) impression that paying more gets you away from certain kinds of ads.

    I also started exclusively using Google as a search engine and my Home page just because of the simplicity of it, which rolls into how quickly the search pages load (only or mostly text advertising links, too, as far as I can see). I am definitely a fan of a clean format.

    Maybe TiVo could clear off the ad from the screen after it's viewed, or give some sort of option to do so. I'm guessing they won't, though, just because they want all members of your household to be able to see their ad.

    DCIFRTHS, now I'm guessing the ads didn't show up right away because my box did not ship with the latest software, so between downloading those updates and downloading the ad data, it must have taken a few weeks.
     
  20. ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    yep, just a couple of factual problems in the post but at least the coffee is fair and balanced...
     

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