No POE Filter Needed?

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by TitanTiger, Nov 6, 2016.

  1. Nov 6, 2016 #1 of 12
    TitanTiger

    TitanTiger Member

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    I just switched in my area from WOW Cable to Charter. Everything is working great and all the TiVos and Minis are talking to each other. But the installer said that they don't need POE filters for MoCA setups anymore and removed that from the connection. I'm curious if anyone else has run into this and if that's correct. I have a firewall enabled on my router and everything connects to that before hitting the cable modem, so I don't think there's anything to see anyway, but I'm just wondering if there's a way to tell if signal is leaking out to neighbors or whatever.
     
  2. Nov 6, 2016 #2 of 12
    mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    They are clueless, but technically correct. Nobody has ever "needed" POE filters just as you don't technically need locks on your doors. But there is no magical new thing about Charter that renders the POE filter obsolete. Moca still works the same way it always has. If you don't want to share, get a filter.
     
  3. Nov 6, 2016 #3 of 12
    fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    The MoCA filter prevents the MoCA signal from leaving your home, thereby providing network security and preventing the MoCA signals from interfering with your neighbors or the cable company's equipment. An additional feature is that a MoCA filter has a "reflective" quality which will actually boost the MoCA signals on your home network.
    The average catv installer is a hs graduate with nothing more than OJT (on the job training).
     
  4. Nov 6, 2016 #4 of 12
    TitanTiger

    TitanTiger Member

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    Well what I was wondering is if they are installing them by default or something.
     
  5. Nov 6, 2016 #5 of 12
    fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    Charter no longer provides Multiroom DVR's of their own, so my best guess is that the idiot installer interpreted this as no longer needing MoCA filters because "THEIR" equipment no longer needs them. In other words, you spoke to a typical uninformed, poorly educated, technically challenged feckless fool who knows how to run coax and terminate it properly.
    If you are using MoCA equipment of your own, you absolutely, positively should have a proper MoCA POE/ Whole Home DVR filter installed on the input of the first splitter to enter your home on all but FIOS and even there, it will do no harm. If the installer removed yours, you can purchase one online or any number of sources including Ebay and install it yourself.
    EDIT: The published insertion loss for a MoCA filter is 1.5dB or less.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2016
  6. Nov 6, 2016 #6 of 12
    waynomo

    waynomo My One Time TCF Club

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    No, they don't install them by default. In fact they no longer install them at all. They no longer supply them to their installers.

    They often recommend removing them because they can degrade signal quality. (or so they told me) I have no idea if that is accurate.
     
  7. Nov 6, 2016 #7 of 12
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    What fcfc2 said. (You need a MoCA filter at your PoE.)

    This is faulty analysis. The MoCA network -- that is, a coax LAN segment of your home network -- is on your coax lines, and, lacking any coax connectivity, your firewall has no control over what's flowing on your coax lines. Your home network LAN would be visible to someone connected to the coax outside your home unless you do something to prevent their ability to access your MoCA network.

    Basically, absent a PoE MoCA filter, MoCA is a rather ugly wide open backdoor to your home network.

    And then there's the performance benefits...
     
    dianebrat likes this.
  8. Nov 6, 2016 #8 of 12
    TitanTiger

    TitanTiger Member

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    Ok, thanks for the unanimous input. :)

    I put a filter back on it. He actually gave me my old one back, but I installed a brand new one.
     
  9. Nov 6, 2016 #9 of 12
    TitanTiger

    TitanTiger Member

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    One question. I installed this outside in the box where the line comes into the house. Should I instead go up in the attic and find the first splitter and put it there?
     
  10. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    That wouldn't affect the security aspect of the filter, but putting the filter on the input to your main splitter would boost the performance, however moderately.

    So, yes. But just don't forget you've where you've put it should you ever look to tweak your coax tree.
     
  11. DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS Active Member

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    Why does this not apply to FiOS?
     
  12. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    A PoE MoCA filter is not need with Fios for *SECURITY* purposes, since there is no risk of the MoCA signals escaping the home.

    In a normal cable TV setup, your home coax would connect to the cable provider's coax lines, and your MoCA signals, if not blocked, could escape your home and flow onto the provider's lines, leaving your MoCA network vulnerable to an outside intruder (similar to what would happen if you didn't lock-down your Wi-Fi signal with security). However, in a Fios setup, your home coax lines connect to the ONT fiber terminal, which blocks your MoCA signals from exiting the premises.

    That said, fcfc2 has reported that there *is* a performance benefit to be gained by installing a PoE MoCA filter on the main splitter's input, as the MoCA filter provides more effective reflection of the MoCA signals back onto your coax lines than would the ONT.
     
    tim1724 likes this.

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