No End In Sight For TiVo Losses

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by PoobBubes, Nov 24, 2010.

  1. wireless200

    wireless200 New Member

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    Apr 15, 2004

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    Actually I'm able to watch plenty of sports. Every Saturday - College games all day including my favorite college teams in the ACC and SEC. Yes, sometimes I have to stream my own college's games or worst case stream from the radio. Sunday, NFL all day. Great games. Every playoff game in any sport is broadcast. NASCAR is on 1st 3rd and last 3rd of the season. Yeah sure I'll cop to admitting you can get more games on cable. At $120 or more per month forget it. How much is you guy's cable bill anyway?
     
  2. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    that's the problem- if you are a fan of your local sports team that plays most of it's games on an RSN then you are hosed.

    Luckily it seams the leagues see a huge potential source of revenue and are starting to experiment with in market streaming. Apparently the NBA has some trials, and the Yankees with their YES network have some babysteps (can stream if you already have cable). MLB.tv apparently figures they will price your single in market team the same as they price the whole out of market package. Their logic is most people buy the out of market package for a single team- and i suppose they are right.

    If I could by the one RSN that I care about over the net I COULD drop cable.

    the thing is I'd still need a phone, and I'd still need a fat pipe to stream down. The only fat pipe in my town is owned by comcast. Once i have to get raped for their internet only price- I might as well as pony up another 19.99 a month for thier unlimited VOIP. Now I'm at a point where all the cable tv i want only costs a few tens of dollars a month. So while I COULD ditch cable if i could stream my local RSN, I'm not sure it would be a huge cost savings to forgo tv- so i probably would stick with triple play if I think about it.

    Will be interesting to see if at some point wimax or LTE or some 4g whatever can become the last mile of copper (coax or twisted pair) and so i can stream to my tivo over that. But that doesn't seam likely to be an economical solution since all the wireless people seem to be shooting for pay per byte for their new networks.
     
  3. wireless200

    wireless200 New Member

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    How much are you paying if you add cable? My 8 Mbs TW cable internet is $45 a month and I used Vonage at about $25/month. I could go cheaper on Vonage by dropping it and using cell phones but I have kids plus we do a lot overseas calling. Overseas is free on Vonage.

    If I added cable and DVR, no sports or movie packages is would be over $120 month more. Sure they might have some first year introductory for less but $120 year is robbery. My TW DVR alone used to be $5.95 but they've raised it to around $12 now. Add up everything you need on TW and it's crazy the amount you spend to watch TV.
     
  4. innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Well-Known Member

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    True but TiVo could still offer other models with it.

    They could release a 4 tuner OTA TiVo without CableCARD which past the R&D/programming cost the hardware should be a lower cost than the current 2/2/2 model. I would think there would be some interest for OTA people.

    They could release a 3 tuner OTA and 1 Tuner CableCARD. They could release a 3 tuner CableCARD and 1 tuner OTA or the best of them all a 4 tuner CableCARD. ;)

    Now for all I know they could release a 4/4/4 box since I don't know anything about what new tuner chips are in the market now since the release of the Premiere and BKDTV seems to be MIA lately.

    I still think TiVo should look at offering a 4 tuner OTA model and a 4 tuner CableCARD TiVo even if they did them as a limited edition model just to see how well they sold.

    Of course all of this depends on how difficult it is to code additional tuners into the mix. I still say TiVo is working on it for next year, but of course when we see it who actually knows.
     
  5. trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

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    Apr 2, 2005

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    Same reason Netflix went into streaming instead of standing still mailing out DVDs.

    IF you don't innovate and change with the times you die.

    Tivo is selling fewer DVRs and subscriptions anyway. Maybe this would have helped or will help?

    Anyway it is all asterisked by the control cable companies exhibit over the set top box market.

    Still Tivo could have/should have/ would have been leading the streaming box category at this point.
     
  6. trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

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    I'm not talking support. I said marketing and promoting. Make the public aware of what they can do with a Tivo and OTA in conjunction with Netflix and Amazon on-demand, etc. You could even partner with those services to get the word out.

    But working against such an effort is the Rokus, BR players, consoles, etc mostly do Netflix, Amazon, etc better than Tivo does it.
     
  7. trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

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    Good point. I'd go further and say a 2 tuner OTA Tivo with no cablecard in conjunction with their streaming services ( improved) would be desirable to many consumers. Maybe also support clear QAM.

    You could even market it with just flash memory to further get the cost down. And let customers add their own hard drive.

    Flash would give you enough space to store the OS, updates and record a program or three.
     
  8. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    just looked it up and comcast internet here would be 45 a month for 15Mbs. I'd honestly have to think about vonage- but always just assume to be too much of the hassle factor for me- comcast phone is 45. So now I'm at 90.

    I would need the local version of MLB.tv to watch my favorite baseball team all the time- the annual out of market MLB.tv price is 120 i believe and as above I've read that they would charge the same for your single local team. so 10 more a month- now I'm at 100.

    So chucking in 20 more a month for a pile of channels isn't all that crazy to me. Even though we probably only watch 12-15 of them in any one given month. I dont buy cable to get disney and nickelodeon for my kids, we dont buy it for the discovery channels or nat geo for the wife and I, I dont buy it to get the 2 PBS channels I can't get without an antenna, we dont buy it for the local highschool channel that we check 6-8 times a year for inclement weather status. But getting all that sort of stuff for $20 a month doesn't seem like that bad a deal. If they weren't morons and worked with Tivo to get me the free VOD stuff on the tivo then the value proposition would be even better- they'd lock me in for sure.

    If I were willing to be bothered with vonage then 40 more a month does seem like a lot- but for the time being vonage is just a bit too much or a pain in my tucus. :D And I'm pretty close to being to the point of ditching landlines all together but I'm not quite there yet.

    Taking the phone savings off the able- cable at the moment has a lock called bandwidth caps. I'd think that i'd nail the caps streaming everything. And if I didn't nail the caps they have today- if we all switched to streaming I'm sure they would respond (and they probably would NEED to respond to stay alive)- by fiddling with caps and/or raising prices.

    So at the moment- there are some small subset- like yourself who are getting over on cable- and good for you someone should! But I dont think that it's realistic that it will stay that way for the masses cable will change to deal with the new eventuality. Cable owns the only viable pipe for many at the moment and so there's not much we can do to get away right now. Hopefully 4G changes that- but I'm just not sure.
     
  9. DrewS3

    DrewS3 Member

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    Tivo would be doing a lot better if they:
    - Made a new, pretty, HD interface.
    - Fixed the broadband applications to make them at least as usable as the versions on Roku/Xbox/PS3/LG Bluray players/Squeezebox, etc.
    - Added SMB/Upnp/DLNA streaming of mp3/wma/flac etc.
    - Made an inexpensive way to stream to another TV.
    - Improved TivoToGo to allow custom settings for higher quality video.

    Then market it as the super all-in-one media streaming DVR, and a great solution for people who want to cancel their cable bill.

    They sort of tried to do some of the above but they don't get much buy-in from the geeks and the trend setters because most of thier non-core features are so half-baked and clunky, like Netflix, Rhapsody, Photos, TivoToGo, MRV, and the UI. People aren't likely to recommend Tivo as a broadband box and no momentum can build.
     
  10. DrewS3

    DrewS3 Member

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    Sep 19, 2008
    Absolutely. I hate buying new boxes for my TV, expecially since the Tivo is already plugged in and turned on all the time. I now have four broadband boxes under my TV and only use the Tivo for DVR functions because it is so outclassed by the others in the broadband features.
     
  11. burdellgp

    burdellgp Member

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    Nope. With cable, I can watch 162 Atlanta Braves games a year (well, 161 this year because of a schedule change pre-empted by FOX). Without it, this year I would have seen about 3 or 4 (and MLB.tv has blackout rules, so I can't watch them there). The first round (and half of the second round) of the MLB playoffs are on cable. Almost all of the college football bowl games are on cable.
     
  12. dstoffa

    dstoffa Member

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    New York, NY
    Since when is TBS available in all markets over the air? They now air the League Division series and one League Championship Series for MLB. FOX does one LCS and the World Series.

    Since when are ALL NHL Playoff games available on OTA?

    Since when are ALL NBA Playoff games available on OTA?

    Every playoff game in any sport is NOT broadcast OTA.

    Sorry, but you need CableTV or a dish if you want to get your sports on.

    Cheers!
    -Doug
     
  13. nexus99

    nexus99 New Member

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    Oct 17, 2002
    To make Tivo more appealing to me...

    1) I need a way to record more things concurrently. Either more tuners. (I have peaked out at 4 running at the same time but that is very uncommon.) Or a way to fully integrate 2 2-tuner boxes under one set of controls. I do like the Moxy format here... a box with more tuners.

    2) An easy way to watch things recorded on Tivo on other devices. On TVs in other rooms, on my iPod/iPhone/iPad, etc. I like the Moxy strategy here too... a small box for the extra bedroom that can display content streamed from the main box.

    3) A way to stream and watch video I have out of disk storage. I have ripped all my Blu-Rays to ISO and if the Tivo would play them I woudn't have to spend money buying a new Dune box. That money could go to Tivo.


    Yes, I know this is jamming the features of multiple products into a TIVO... but that would make it really rocking cool.

    Maybe if the Tivo software could run as an application on my PS3... now that would be pretty hot.
     
  14. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    In the ATL
    Again, untrue - most of the Chase is on ESPN. Stop generalizing.

    Look, we get it, you don't want to pay because you're not a big sports fan. Some of us do.
     
  15. wireless200

    wireless200 New Member

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    Nope. I had the same conversation with someone earlier this year and had checked.

    Thirty six races - only eleven not on Fox or ABC. So 70% are available free more than my "generalization" of 2/3's being free.

    Maybe the word you're thinking of is "rationalizing." Apply liberally to self.
     
  16. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    NJ

    here's a timely article about how if everyone moves to streaming then everyone's bills will go up:

    Netflix is a bandwidth hog. Who will pay? (Hint: You.)
     
  17. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    In the ATL
    Do you always ignore your prior posts, or what? You said, 'every playoff game in any sport', which is absolutely not true for all of the major sports as has been shown in this thread.

    Are you trying to deny that almost every NASCAR Chase (i.e., playoff) race was on ESPN this fall? Here's a link to the 2010 broadcasts, since you seem to be blind to the facts - 20 out of 36 races were on cable including all but one Chase race. Or that MLB playoff games were on TBS? Seriously?

    Whatever, man - you go your way believing what you want to believe, the serious sports fan goes another.
     
  18. wireless200

    wireless200 New Member

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    Apr 15, 2004
    The shedules I've seen show differently. http://onpitrow.com/files/2009/12/2010-sprint-cup-schedule.pdf
    I'm sure I watched some of the chase races on OTA tv.
    I'll cop to the fact that not every last playoff game in any sport is on free TV. The examples given in a post above, I didn't contradict - the fact is, I don't care much for NHL or NBA although games are shown on free tv.

    A number of baseball playoff games were on TV expecially with the eventually WS winners the Giants. I like the Braves and saw enough games this year that I didn't feel the urge to spend $120 month for more.

    I don't know your definition of the serious sports fan but the ones I consider serious don't watch every last game and mostly watch what I get for free on their paid cable. More power to 'em. Those cable prices help keep the economy going.

    The main hole in free tv is ESPN which is one of main pay networks that drive the price of cable so high. I can stream espn3 so I watched some college games that way. Plus there's a couple of other streaming services for college games. You go ahead and pay the Heat's salary, I'll keep the change.
     
  19. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    In the ATL
    LOL, for the $60/mo. I'm paying right now to get all of Comcast's channels in HD, I can see why the Heat are underperforming.

    Your link to NASCAR 2010 is broken, but mine isn't and was 100% accurate - I recorded and watched all of the races. If you want to do this, you have to pay. Sorry that you don't see this as reality, but it's true for any serious fan of most sports or teams. Some of the Braves games, using your example, are on free TV - Peachtree here in the ATL - but the majority are on Fox Sports South or SportsSouth.

    A serious (diehard) fan, to me, is someone who wants to watch as many of his sport or team's games as he can. You obviously are not one, and that's ok, but don't try to tell the rest of us that we're idiots for spending the money. It's just a difference of opinion.
     
  20. trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

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    There is alot of sports on OTA though. You have to acknowledge that.

    Mostly during the weekend and mostly stuff that has a national audience.
     

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