No Disney+ App?

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by jakryk, Nov 12, 2019.

  1. Apr 1, 2021 #101 of 132
    Sam Ray

    Sam Ray Member

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    In addition to the application development, Tivo applications execute outside the Tivo box. In other words, support of Disney+ (in non-streaming boxes) requires that Disney provide hardware for doing that.
     
  2. Apr 1, 2021 #102 of 132
    Sam Ray

    Sam Ray Member

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    It could easily be just rumors and I posted authoritive sources indicating it is.
     
  3. Apr 1, 2021 #103 of 132
    CurtJester

    CurtJester New Member

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    Your source is eleven years old, not one year old; I know time flies, but May 7, 2010, when wmcbrine posted that, was 11 years ago.
     
  4. Apr 1, 2021 #104 of 132
    CurtJester

    CurtJester New Member

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    Fortunately, you need not take my word for it: R.I.P. HME
     
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  5. Apr 1, 2021 #105 of 132
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    It's not
     
  6. Apr 1, 2021 #106 of 132
    Sam Ray

    Sam Ray Member

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    Sorry, yes you are correct.

    He also says there is nothing official about that from Tivo.

    And I still see nothing authoritive about a replacement for HME; especially not the HTML, Opera and Samsung explanation.

    Okay, I looked at the Tivo Copyrights file in the Tivo. It does say something about Opera. Can you explain how Opera is used for third-party applications? Any relevant documentation or announcement or whatever? The most important relevant documentation is anything indicating that third-party Tivo applications execute within the Tivo box. Opera is not an operating system; even Apache does not have such things as a file system and the necessary video processing. So what do third-party Tivo applications use for those features? There must be developer documentation for third-party applications for Tivo. Where is that for the Samsung HTML and Opera API you describe?

    That copyright information is interesting. It mentions FreeBSD, not Linux; perhaps Tivo switched from Linux to FreeBSD. It also mentions Apache, Android and Chromium. It even has copyright information for Python Lex-YACC. I really doubt that there is a source-code generator of syntactical and lexical parsers in every Tivo box; the copyright information is probably there due to the existence of relevant generated code.
     
  7. Apr 1, 2021 #107 of 132
    CurtJester

    CurtJester New Member

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    Opera gets their HTML5 app platform on TiVo

    Opera has signed up Samsung and is already on some TiVo devices, from 2014

    Vewd (formerly Opera TV, as explicitly mentioned htere) app store info, from TiVo themselves

    Stumbled upon a reference to the underlying website Plex uses on the TiVo this in the kmttg source. This looks like it is indeed the app, from personal experience, and OperaTV is invoked within the page's Javascript source: https://plex.tv/web/tv/tivo

    The relevant kmttg source bit which indicates there are flash and webapps by the looks of it (search on 'Netflix (html)'): kmttg / Code / [r4378] /trunk/src/com/tivo/kmttg/gui/remote/remotecontrol.java

    Though, IMO, the real clue is the Tivo HME e-list, linked from the HME SDK homepage you posted; no posts since 2012: TiVo HME SDK / List tivohme-developer Archives
     
  8. Apr 2, 2021 #108 of 132
    dianebrat

    dianebrat wait.. I did what? TCF Club

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    Sorry, but you've managed to spam every thread with Disney+ in the sub-forum, and you won't accept the facts that
    A: The app isn't on any Tivo
    B: People have clearly stated that it's not here and not coming

    Just because you don't like the answer and history is against you doesn't mean everyone else is wrong about what they've posted.
    Denial and desire willing it to happen won't result in it happening.
     
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  9. Apr 2, 2021 #109 of 132
    Sam Ray

    Sam Ray Member

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    That says the application is in Tivo boxes from six cable operators, implying not in most Tivo boxes. It says nothing about what it is in inside Tivo boxes.

    Some Tivo boxes.

    That is the important one. That is the first authoritive source that says something relevant. It says your DVR accesses the apps from the Vewd server. It is not clear what access means here; it is not clear where the application executes.

    That is the website and the Javascript is executing in the browser, I do not understand how that is relevant to what is executing in a Tivo system.

    As best as I can tell, OperaTV is a client there, as well as YouTube, Vudu and streambaby.

    An absence of updates does not necessarily mean that it is no longer used. Assuming it is still used, an absence of updates indicates it is stable.
     
  10. Apr 2, 2021 #110 of 132
    Sam Ray

    Sam Ray Member

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    Thank you for the opportunity to explain my motivation. Note that I really hope I am not using intimidation or personal attacks. It is true that I posted the same reply multiple times; these forums unfortunately allow the same question to be asked multiple times and therefore the same comment (that I replied to) were posted multiple times.

    If it is shown that I am mistaken then I have accomplished my purpose of determining the truth. I just want to get something authoritive and clear that is relevant to the questions. I usually provide authoritve sources for what I post but many people do not. I am just asking for something clear and authoritve such as what I would do. I am sorry, but I do not define spam as being everything I do not like.
     
  11. Apr 2, 2021 #111 of 132
    dianebrat

    dianebrat wait.. I did what? TCF Club

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    You're asking the same question, and arguing the same argument that you did in 2019 and you're even getting the same answers, HME is dead, Disney+ isn't coming to Tivo DVRs.

    Disney+
    Instead of just continuing the conversation in 1 recent thread you replied the same in five different threads, sure the forum software won't stop you, but experience should suggest that may not be the best approach. I don't consider it spam because "I don't like it" I consider it spam because there wasn't a reason to blast the same reply in five threads.
     
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  12. Apr 2, 2021 #112 of 132
    dbpaddler

    dbpaddler Well-Known Member

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    Considering Tivo's future in cable is with Android, why would anyone cling to the idea of new apps coming out for the current DVR OS?

    Get a streaming stick and call it a day.

    Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk
     
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  13. Apr 2, 2021 #113 of 132
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    You fell well short of that, as it failed to explain why you care anything at all about the ancient, deprecated HME functionality.
     
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  14. Apr 2, 2021 #114 of 132
    Sam Ray

    Sam Ray Member

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    You are ignoring the fact that Dan203 posted the same information in all of them.

    Did Tivo say they will use Android in future cable-TV Tivo devices? And that is not relevant to all the Tivo devices that people already own.

    Has Tivo officially deprecated HME functionality, including Tivo devices that people already own?

    There has been much speculation in these discussions about why Tivo has not developed an application for Disney+ and I am trying to get an accurate explanation of whether it is reasonable to blame Tivo.
     
  15. Apr 2, 2021 #115 of 132
    dianebrat

    dianebrat wait.. I did what? TCF Club

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    I'm not ignoring that Dan203 answered you twice, I'm pointing out he gave you the same answer both times.
    The highlighted line has you making a very incorrect assumption, Tivo does not develop any of the apps, the apps are developed by the provider and submitted to Tivo, the reason there is no Disney+ app is that the developer of the Disney+ app has not built one for Tivo, so in regards to "missing apps" the answer is that Tivo is not the party that is to blame.

    But it goes back to you wanting an "authoritative answer" in a forum that is not owned nor operated by Tivo and has no Tivo representatives in it, there are people here that have been in the game for a long time and when they say "it's not going to happen" it's worth respecting them as opposed to saying you want an authoritative answer from the source of record and dismissing their answer as "not authoritative"
     
  16. Apr 2, 2021 #116 of 132
    Sam Ray

    Sam Ray Member

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    I agree that third-party applications are not developed by Tivo. I apologize for saying anything indicating otherwise. My point goes beyond that; it is my understanding that all third-party applications do not execute within the Tivo device. That issue is critical because if it is true then support of Disney+ in cable-TV Tivo devices require hardware outside of (our) Tivo devices. If that is true then people have not been saying that. I have not developed a Tivo application but I did research how it is done. I have installed samples of Tivo applications. I know that in the past Tivo applications executed outside the Tivo devices and no one has provided anything authoritive saying otherwise (that any third-party application executes within the Tivo device).

    You misunderstand what I mean by authoritive (and I spell it that way because I want to). I am using the word in the manner that Wikipedia does. In other words Vewd: App Information is relevant and authoritive, it just is too vague.
     
  17. Apr 2, 2021 #117 of 132
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Responding to different people, at different times. I didn't copy and paste my response to 3 different threads simultaneously.

    Yes, many years ago. They don't run at all on the new TE4 UI which is like 3 years old now. The only way you can run them at all is on a TiVo running the old UI. You can't even downgrade an Edge or a Bolt Vox OTA to the old UI, which are the two most recent boxes from TiVo. So if that's not proof enough to you that HME is dead, I'm not sure what is.

    At the time TiVo released the current apps platform it was relatively cutting edge. But TiVo didn't keep up. The app industry is constantly evolving and TiVo hasn't updated their platform in almost 10 years. The proof is in the fact that they haven't added an app from a major streaming service in several years. The Hulu app is still using a 3 year old UI. HBO never updated their HBOGo app to HBOMax. We never got CBS/Paramount+, we never got Peacock, we never got Apple TV+, and we never got Disney+. And apps like MLB, WWE and Spotify have all actually dropped their apps from the platform. On top of that TiVo now sells an Android TV based streamer to the public, and an Android TV based DVR to MSO, which specifically advertise compatibility with all of those apps in direct competition with its own DVR.

    And that's not to mention the fact that TiVo itself, as a DVR platform, is dying. DVRs in general are becoming less popular because of streaming. Then there's the recent FCC decision to MSOs to stop supporting CableCARDs even though there is no established successor. This is the end of the road for the TiVo DVR. Why would any company pour resources into developing, testing and maintaining an app to run on a platform that is so obviously dying? They wouldn't.
     
  18. Apr 2, 2021 #118 of 132
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    I've been a member and moderator of this forum for 21 years. I still spend more time reading these forums on a daily basis than I care to admit. I've developed, and worked on, several of the most popular community projects. (including HME apps) I've even done actual paid development work for TiVo itself. How much more authoritative do you expect on a community forum?

    You seem to dislike my answer and are looking for some "proof" that doesn't exist. TiVo is never going to come out and say "we're never releasing Disney+". All we can do is make educated guesses based on past experience and our knowledge of the platform. And my experience in that area tells me definitely, it's never going to happen.
     
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  19. Apr 2, 2021 #119 of 132
    dbpaddler

    dbpaddler Well-Known Member

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    They have been using android for cable for a bit now. Since you've been under a rock apparently...
    TiVo Paves Path to Android TV Operator Tier | Light Reading

    And it is relavent because you, for some God awful reason, still have some oddly misplaced belief that Tivo gives a rat's ass about their dvr ecosystem. You seem to be clinging to it like they're going to come around any day now. You are the ultimate bagholder (for a stock reference) and take an absence of confirmation as your only reason to believe otherwise.

    Like that girl you're dating. Haven't gone out in weeks. She hasn't called once or returned your texts or calls. But you're still dating because she hasn't actually said she's breaking up with you.

    They've moved on. The Edge is it. They even spun off Edge for Antenna to channelmaster. Nothing new and revolutionary has hit for ages. No hbo max. No Disney+. No iptv app support. No new boxes coming down the line. They brought the Mini in line and that's about it.

    Android TV is their future for boxes at an Operator Tier level. They compete with X1 and the few other OS's out there for cable boxes. They then introduced the TS4k as a consumer option and to help improve and fine tune CubiTV.

    It's been a year and a half and no word, sniff, hint, leak or whatever to give any remote inkling that Disney+ will come to the dvr platform. HBO Max (for reference) is going on a year with the same lack of info it'll come to the ecosystem.

    So keep clinging based on nothing but a complete absence of confirmation, and keep up the contempt towards everyone who tries to get you to see the light. You must be a blast at gatherings.



    Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
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  20. Apr 2, 2021 #120 of 132
    CurtJester

    CurtJester New Member

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    I'll skip pointing you at more source code, since it's clear you can't decipher that the plex page I linked checks it's running on Tivo and uses OperaTV, or notice that one of the apps the other page invoked listed HME, but not the others. So, back to tivo.com stuff.

    Sadly, developer.tivo.com has been replaced entirely with stuff about the metadata they sell. But, back in the day, there was an SDK. What was the SDK in 2012?

    Not a link to HME. Instead, visitors were pointed at an ActionScript-based SDK.

    Then, in 2013, Opera SDK support for Roamio was announced
    . There were also some reactions here, including about HTML5 being better than ActionScript. Certainly the developer's corner here has been busy with HTML5 apps.

    So, HME is basically done. Are you ever going to get official notice of deprecation? No, you won't. Companies see any release of information they don't have to do as a liability, and for all we know some creaky part of TE3 depends on HME internals. They did remove access to outside HME apps in Hydra (TE4), though: How is Hydra now?

    (Ironic that the HME website explicitly claims no support for playing video on the homepage and in the official docs; you'd think that if they wanted folks to use it, the homepage would emphasize the fact you could use it to play video starting with Series 3 TiVos.. though it sounds like it only supports MPEG-2 these days, which is not what most streaming services use.)
     
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