New Upcoming Firestick/Roku/Apple TV App Discussion

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by ronmojohny, Jun 24, 2019.

  1. ronmojohny

    ronmojohny New Member

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    I just saw the announcement about the new streaming box apps coming out, Yay! But I have the Roamio OTA model, I'm hoping it will support this new App, not just the Bolt going forward.. anyone know?
     
  2. rbronco21

    rbronco21 Member

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    I haven't seen anything (and would like a link) but the newest iPhone and android apps support Roamio so I hope this will too.
     
  3. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    A few threads on the subject, starting with the main one:


    ... but to cut to the chase, if you can't do mobile streaming from your Roamio OTA, there is ZERO way the new apps would work for you. Any 4-tuner Roamio requires a standalone TiVo Stream or the Stream module built into a Roamio Plus or Pro for its content to be streamable to mobile devices.

    Next is waiting for the final details on exactly what hardware and software is supported, though some info on the subject has been posted to the above thread.
     
  4. rbronco21

    rbronco21 Member

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    Good point. I have one of the other Roamios and didn't realize there were limitations to the OTA. And I thought there was some big announcement today. I've been watching apk sites for a newer android version and I've sideloaded the last few versions just to see if the support was built in yet. Can't wait to get it back on my FireTV devices.
     
  5. Adam C.

    Adam C. Active Member

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    If you have a Roamio OTA you're out of luck as this model does not support streaming. A few months ago I bought a Tivo Stream on Ebay but ended up having to return it because it was locked down to the seller's cable company. So buyer beware if you buy on Ebay. Tivo no longer makes the Stream, I assume since they want people to upgrade to the Bolt and other newer model DVRs. I have a Slingbox connected to my Roamio so I actually don't really need the Steam anyway.
     
  6. fyodor

    fyodor Active Member

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    I would worry about this when there is an actual app. Tivo takes its sweet sweet time with these things.
     
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  7. tomhorsley

    tomhorsley Well-Known Member

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    And does anyone believe a roku app would be more reliable than the android app (which always takes me a dozen retries if I get it to work at all).
     
  8. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    With the current method used for streaming these apps aren't going to be great as a Mini replacement. The way all current TiVos work is they record the program in it's original format and then they transcode, on the fly, to a format that is supported by the streaming device as it's being streamed. This is very inefficient and prone to delays and errors, especially when you try to use trick play. A better solution would be for the TiVo to transcode all programs to a streaming compatible format as they're being recorded. This is what Tablo does and why it's able to stream to 6 different devices simultaneously. The quality will be slightly lower, which will be a negative to some, but most people won't even notice. The trickiest part here is having enough transcoding chips to support the number of tuners. For a 2 or even 4 tuner device it's feasible, but for a 6 tuner device it could be really expensive and energy consuming. So it may not be something TiVo can actually do cheaply enough on a cable device that supports the standard 6 tuners.
     
  9. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I thought a cheap workaround would be for the DVR to transcode new recordings in the background after a program was recorded, replacing the original recording on completion of the transcode.
     
  10. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    That could work, but it would prevent the ability to stream content that is in progress and hasn't yet been transcoded. Not sure how acceptable a system like that would be to the user.
     
  11. cwoody222

    cwoody222 Well-Known Member

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    There’s no way this will be as good as a Mini which replicates the experience of sitting at my main TiVo 100%, including trick play.

    And for $170 with no fees, the Mini is totally worth it.
     
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  12. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Right, they'd have to have mechanisms in place to pause or halt the background transcoding any time a live transcode is needed, perhaps with a warning to the user that trickplay, etc. would be affected. They could use special icons to denote transcoded content vs yet-to-be-transcoded, to allow the user to make informed playback choices, when appropriate.

    Idle speculation. I don't see it happening.
     
  13. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Yeah that sounds too complicated. I think if they were going to go this route they'd just limit it to 4 tuners and be done with it. No need for such a complicated system.
     
  14. d_anders

    d_anders Sr Legacy Member

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    Twin Cities...
    Which is exactly what they are doing. 6 tuner support is being dropped with the Edge. Only 2 tuner and 4 tuners.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Says who? 2- and 4-tuners are what is known for the OTA-only models, but I haven’t seen anyone/thing citing the # of tuners for the “for Cable” model.
     
  16. d_anders

    d_anders Sr Legacy Member

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    Twin Cities...
    You are right. My mistake, I thought it was for both but It’s only for OTA....and they haven’t noted models/tuners for the cable “models” yet.

    I went over the FCC docks and see nothing on that yet.

    Given transcoding and everything else I would rather they better support and provide the proper cpu/memory headroom for streaming performance for on-the-TiVo box apps, streaming to mini’s, and the apps for running on other devices (for 60fps/720+) than max out the tuners.

    I am sure they know the numbers of who’s actually using all of their tuners on the 6 tuner boxes and assume that the low percentage group would likely consider buying another box anyway.

    This is all speculation and makes for
    Good banter.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  17. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    I wouldn’t be that surprised if they only released a 4 tuner cable unit. If their goal is to make these new apps part of the main TiVo experience then they almost have to transcode during recording to make that a good experience.
     
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  18. jcthorne

    jcthorne Well-Known Member

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    Some FireTV and Roku clients can already handle MPEG2. Seems the app should ask for the non-transcoded version in this case and the experience would be much more like a mini for these higher end streaming devices.
     
  19. CloudAtlas

    CloudAtlas Bryan TCF Club

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    The goal I believe is to add another option to how customers can view TiVO. Allowing TiVO viewing on the millions of Roku, Apple, and Amazon streamers attached to TV is a low cost solution similar to the current iOS and Android mobile viewing options.

    But those options shouldn’t come at the expense of the best viewing option of a dedicated hardware client, the Tivo Mini (4K). But this setup requires lots of tuners since each Mini in use grabs a dedicated tuner leaving the remaining tuners for recording channels. Fortunately CableCard supports 6 tuners so TiVO Edge will too.

    The good news is it looks like the TiVO Edge for Cable has a dedicated transcoding chip like the Roamio Plus/Pro complete with its own MAC address and IP address which will help support the streaming clients.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  20. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    As far as hypothetical transcoding on a 6-tuner CableCARD TiVo Edge goes, keep in mind that a lot of cable customers get some or all of their channels in MPEG-4 already and so those video streams wouldn't need to be transcoded. This is the case with all or nearly all channels on Comcast nationwide; everything is in fairly low bitrate 720p at MPEG-4, with the possible exception of certain locals. I know that both Charter and Cox offer MPEG-4 encodes on at least some of their channels in some areas; not sure of the extent there. Verizon FiOS TV began doing MPEG-4 encodes back in 2013 although, again, I don't know if their use of the codec is as extensive as on Comcast. Those four operators constitute the overwhelming majority of retail TiVo users on cable TV.

    But, OTOH, an interlaced channel (1080i or 480i) in MPEG-4 would still need to be de-interlaced to 1080p or 480p as it was being recorded/buffered; that's not as computationally intensive as transcoding from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 but it's still something.

    One could imagine that the TiVo Edge for Cable might be limited to four simultaneous transcodes even though it would have six QAM cable tuners. For most users most of the time, there wouldn't be a problem because, even if all six tuners were in use at the same time (a rarity for most), chances would be low that more than four of the video streams would be in MPEG-2 and require transcoding. In those very rare instances where that happened, the MPEG-2 recordings on the hard drive could later be transcoded to MPEG-4 when system resources allowed it.

    The marketing language for the product might say something like "View live or recorded cable TV on 4 or more external devices at the same time. (Number of supported devices may exceed 4 depending on system conditions.)"
     

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