New TV without upgrading D* equipment

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by mike48, Dec 27, 2005.

  1. mike48

    mike48 New Member

    18
    0
    Jul 18, 2003
    Illinois
    I do not really want to switch our DirectTV standard equipment at this time as it seems pretty solid and things on the HD end appear to not be really ready for my prime time yet as far as HDMI problems etc. [We like our Directivo best when it is not in the mail -- we have had no down time yet and would like to keep it that way.]

    We do need to replace our only TV and plan on getting an HDTV set that will continue to work down the road for us but would like to use it without changing to the HD version of our current Directivo setup at this time.

    My question is: will the picture I get on a new HDTV TV set be as good or better than what we have gotten on our old non-HDTV CRT projection TV? [One salesman had me concerned that my picture on a new HDTV may not be nearly as good due to the 480i output of my current D* equipment and how the new TVs will handle it. :eek: -- I am probably going to stick with the CRT technology as it seems to be very dependable technology; not requiring down time or service calls for over a decade at a time].

    I assume someone in the Tivo community must have tried this, but could not find anyone posting about this scenario. I appologize if this has been discussed before. If you have upgraded your TV but not your Directivo equipment, please let me know if your picture is grainy or just as good or better than it was on your previous SD TV?

    TIA,

    Mike
     
  2. ebonovic

    ebonovic has gone his way...

    11,164
    0
    Jul 24, 2001
    Tinley...
    In all honest it will look worse....

    and here is why:

    1) You are probably going to go to a LARGER screen then you have before. This is a similar affect when you take a picture and blow it up.... it can only look so good, and technology can only blend things so much. If there is not enough information in the video image, the larger it gets, the worse it is going to look. Note: Technology built into newer TV's try to offset this as best they can, but they can only go so far.

    2) Newer technology in the TV's tend to show you EVERYTHING the signal sends up. So you will start to see the compression and macro blockin in the images.

    3) You will probably be getting a widescreen TV... That will make the pictures looked stretched (unless you go into reverse letterbox mode), and that will take some time to get used to.

    BUT... with those said... The image is still going to look "okay" provided you are not sitting on top of the TV.... I run my SD- DTivo through my 50" plasma... after a few weeks, i have gotten used to it.... But I do try to watch as much as possible via the HD-DTivo (HR10-250)
     
  3. kepper

    kepper Member

    113
    0
    Nov 28, 2003
    southern...
    Hi Mike,

    I got a 32" Sharp Aquos in early December and used it with an D* R-10 for a couple of weeks before my HR 10-250 arrived. I also was concerned that the picture quality of SD broadcasts from D* would look lousy on my HD set.

    They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder... so take the following comments as my own opinion; others may disagree. In short, I thought the picture quality from the R-10 was acceptable on my HDTV. In some ways it was a little better than on the CRT it replaced, in other ways it wasn't quite as good. I think the colors were more vibrant and crisper on the HDTV. I think that D*'s compression artifacts were more apparent. And the 4X3 sidebars were a PITA.

    I installed an antenna before my HR 10-250 arrived, and watched some off the air analog signals on my HDTV. The artifacts were gone, but I got some ghosting, some static and occasionally some snow in the picture, so I switched back to the standard D* signal, because overall it was better. (My set doesn't have an ATSC tuner, so I couldn't get the digital channels OTA.)

    My verdict? Watching SD from my R-10 was OK on my HDTV. It certainly wasn't nearly as bad as I feared, but it also didn't do justice to the capabilities of the TV set. Not bad, but not GREAT.


    Kevin


    P.S. I have had a HR 10-250 for a couple of weeks and it rocks! It is hooked up to my TV through HDMI and I've had no problems. I also use an outside antenna for OTA reception through the HR 10-250. No problems so far, I love it.
     
  4. mike48

    mike48 New Member

    18
    0
    Jul 18, 2003
    Illinois
    Thanks for the info. So it sounds like the picture will actually be worse than what I am getting now from all that I have heard so far. Kind of depressing to buy a new TV and get a worse picture than before. :(

    I am not really familiar with any of the OTA issues with D* equipment. It sounds like from what you have said (your TV does not have a tuner for OTA) that your HT10-250 takes care of the tuning of OTA locals. Can you also schedule these programs to be recorded with a season pass or is recording OTA stuff a completely different procedure than non-OTA? If so, I assume there is likely much "hokieness" involved.
     
  5. hoopsrgreat

    hoopsrgreat New Member

    318
    0
    Jan 2, 2005
    california
    I had a 60" Mits rear projection non HD tv. Th epicture was good using my SD tivo. I replaced that with a 61" Samsung 1080P HD tv. The picture is not as good for standard def tv IMO. The picture is far bhetter with any HD content, but SD basketball on the nba league pass is not so hot.

    DVDs are better.

    Almost all primetime content is HD now from OTA where I live.

    Just keep in mind, in 2006 we will hopefully be seeing HD DVD or Blue Ray in high volumes. Keep our fingers crossed.
     
  6. mike48

    mike48 New Member

    18
    0
    Jul 18, 2003
    Illinois
    I will be interested to see how the wife reacts to me telling her the new TV I am planning on buying won't look so great. (When we first started using DVDs, she didn't like the black horizontal bars and wanted to continue to get movies on Tape so we didn't "have that problem" -- I am sure she will have a hard time to getting used to vertical bars on a new TV.

    I guess another option I should consider is to replace my 52" CRT PTV with a 27" SD CRT we have in storage and postpone the HD TV until we feel D* is out of beta mode.
     
  7. mike48

    mike48 New Member

    18
    0
    Jul 18, 2003
    Illinois
    I will be getting about the same size screen; about 50-52" (however it will now, of course, be a widescreen).
     
  8. JimSpence

    JimSpence Just hangin'

    30,900
    36
    Sep 19, 2001
    Binghamton, NY
    When you get a new HD Ready TV, make sure you turn down the brightness, contrast and sharpness settings. These are set at the factory way too high and cause the picture to look worse. Why are they set so high? So that when on display in a store they tend to "pop" out.

    Also, tell the wife that having the black horizontal bars is a good thing. Because you see more of the show as the directors wanted, in widescreen.

    And if she doesn't like the horizontal bars, wait until she sees the pillar box bars when watching 4:3 content on a widescren 16:9 display. :)
     
  9. kepper

    kepper Member

    113
    0
    Nov 28, 2003
    southern...
    No "hokieness" at all. The HR 10-250 has four tuners, two satellite and two for ATSC OTA signals. You connect an antenna to the HR 10-250 and it does a scan to see which OTA channels you can receive; it then downloads guide data for those channels and they show up just like any other channel in your channel list. The satellite channels have are designated (SAT) in the guides, and the OTA channels are designated (ANT). You can go into channel settings and select only those channels you want to see in the guide. The OTA signal is passed through to your HDTV if you have selected that channel to watch.

    Season passes, wishlists, etc. work with the satellite channels and the OTA channels. Since the picture quality from the OTA channels can be significantly better than those from D*, I normally choose to record shows from the OTA channels. Since I live in the Los Angeles area, I get the same locals from the D* HD network feed that I get OTA. The OTAs look somewhat better because they don't have compression artifacts.


    Kevin
     
  10. goony

    goony New Member

    1,749
    0
    Nov 19, 2003
    My wife had the same complaint with DVDs or broadcast letterbox movies, but if it's a movie she really likes (read: chick flick) then there will be no squawking. I once asked her (at the end of the movie) about the letterboxing on the DVD she rented and she had to admit she didn't even notice it!
     
  11. flmgrip

    flmgrip New Member

    129
    0
    Nov 26, 2003
    los angeles, CA
    please don't mislead anyone here. OTA channels transmit HD all the time but a good 80-90% of that is in 4:3 format...

    JimSpence is right. turn DOWN SHARPNESS. to the lowest setting.

    i can't recommend CRT, but if you want to go that way that's fine. either way it will not look worse than before unless you talk yourself into it. some will look differnet like the stretch modes, but you will get used to it.

    also get the HD tivo or HD receiver. you won't regred it. keep your existingtivo as a backup, but HDMI issues are not that bad anymore and there are plenty of customers out there without problems. on these forums you mostly read about the bad stuff...

    get a new set and enjoy it
     
  12. ebonovic

    ebonovic has gone his way...

    11,164
    0
    Jul 24, 2001
    Tinley...
    6 nights a week (Exclude Saturday, since there are very few series on)... 3 hours each night, 4 main networks (CBS/NBC/ABC/FOX)
    18x4 = 72 hours;

    Let's see...
    All 3 CSIs are in HD 16:9
    All 3 Law and Orders are in HD 16:9
    E-Ring 1 Hour
    Criminal Minds
    Lost
    Ghost Whispers
    ER
    Close to Home
    Cold Case
    Alias
    Commander and Chief
    Bones
    24
    Desperate Housewifes
    Surface
    Las Vegas
    Medium

    That would account for 21 of that 72 hour window.
    That would be just under 30% of the primetime window, and that is just the 1hr shows. Shall we continue with the 30 minute shows (which basically anything new in the last 2 years is done in HD and at 16:9)....

    Your are looking at least 50% of the primetime window is in HD and at 16:9
    This is before you account for Late Evening (Jay Leno), Specials (Awards shows), sports.... And those programs on the WB and UPN that are done in HD 16:9...

    And that is just the OTA broadcasts....
    We could continue to list the series shows on HBO-HD, SHOW-HD; Discovery-HD, and the replays that are on UPD-HD (such as BSG)...
     
  13. flmgrip

    flmgrip New Member

    129
    0
    Nov 26, 2003
    los angeles, CA
    earl

    you are saying 30%-40% i am saying 10%-20%

    some of the shows you are naming are not even on air, alias and 24 come in mind. i am too bored by this to look any further into your math.

    yes primetime the % might be higher, but why only look at tv-shows ? what about news, commercials, real-tv and informative shows ? HBO, SHO and discovery are prime channels (HD-package) UPD-HD i have no idea what that is sorry.

    but look at 24/7 broadcast's, news, mid-day shows, reality-tv... don't see HD there. switch to ESPN-HD, chances are it's not HD (and that is a PRIME $$ channel)

    late evening it's only jay leno and the other dude (letterman ?)

    it's not all that fantastic, it's not all HD... but before you think i am a HD hater, D* hater or complainer, look at the post i did link to.

    hey i am on your side, but don't make someone belief that it is all HD, because it is not. and to look at 3hrs out of 24... that's not even 10%... get real. but i love HD anyway, especially disc-HD
     
  14. ntwrkd

    ntwrkd New Member

    35
    0
    Oct 18, 2003
    I just bought a 42" Panasonic Plasma TH-42PD50U EDTV (not HDTV). I have it hooked up to my Philips SD DSR-704 via S-Video. The EDTV upconverts the 480i (interlaced analog signal) to 480p (progressive scan). Some channels look pixelated and or blurry and some channels look GREAT! I believe that the major factor at play here is the amount of compression being applied to some feeds and any attempts made to "clean up" a bad feed from a network or channel provider. Channels like Discovery, HBO, ESPN,etc. (real cable channels that don't broadcast OTA) are ALWAYS consistantly better on the plasma than when viewed on my old analog Sony Vega 25" CRT (which has a great picture but is not capable of displaying 480p). I have all the settings tweaked to minimize the effects from a "bad" broadcast stream.
    Bottom line:
    I'll still take the plasma over the old CRT anyday! It's brighter, has more vivid colors and a more enjoyable viewing experience overall. Since I watch mostly ESPN, Discovery, HBO, Starz and other (cable only ) channels most of the time, I am extremely happy with SD programming as I think HD is too pricey for the amount of channels being provided at this time. Maybe in another 5 years or so, we won't have to worry about SD anymore because the hardware and the amount of channels provided will be a better value.
     
  15. Blurayfan

    Blurayfan Active Member

    1,121
    0
    Oct 6, 2003
    Alias has been on air since September, only off for Holidays. 24 returns in January.
    It's more than 10%, 3 hours of 24 is 1/8 or 12.5% of 24.
     
  16. mike48

    mike48 New Member

    18
    0
    Jul 18, 2003
    Illinois
    Thanks for the encouragement. Is there much of a hassle switching to an old backup Directivo that has been out of service for some time?
     
  17. KDE

    KDE New Member

    10
    0
    Dec 22, 2005
    Does the HR 10-250 require a landline?

    Right now we are using the R10 with no phone line (connected initially through the neighbors line) and just skip past the DTV notice. As a sidebar we are also in the process of buying a new HDTV (Pioneer Elite 50" plasma or Dell 50" plasma) -- any comments? We like the models without the speakers attached...
     
  18. ebonovic

    ebonovic has gone his way...

    11,164
    0
    Jul 24, 2001
    Tinley...

    Sorry... late night, and I was having a "bad" forum evening on other forums...

    What I was trying to point out is that over the past 2 years, there has been a significant leap forward in programs that in HD and are 16:9 (some one else pointed out about Alias and 24)...

    UPD-HD (sorry about that... bad accronym... Universal Pictures HD not sure why I threw the extra D in there)...

    But there is at least 1 hour a night on ever channel that is in HD (normally the 9pm CST time slot) if not more....

    Commercials are probably going to be the last thing to convert to HD... but who really cares about Commercials... :D

    My local ABC affiliate does broadcast in HD 16:9 evening news, but what we get extra.... Blank desk space, as they still need to keep the two ancors in the center of the picture... Nice, but not a big deal either...

    Since got my HDTV two years ago... there is SO much more to what in HD then before, and if it wasn't for BattleStar Galatica being replayed on UHD... I would can the HD package for a while...
     
  19. ebonovic

    ebonovic has gone his way...

    11,164
    0
    Jul 24, 2001
    Tinley...
    It requires it in the same sense your R10 does... For the setup process, and that is it.

    Take a look at www.avsforum.com for information regarding your Plasma purchase. (IMHO stay far away from the Dell). I own the commercial version of the Pioneer Elite (at least the one from two years ago) and love it.

    Do some looking around... You may be able to save your self a TON of $$$ by going with a commercial version Plasma, and adding a video card to it. I ended up saving nearly $5k when I purchased mine (vs going with the Elite, and it basically is the same TV)
     
  20. rick31621

    rick31621 New Member

    184
    0
    Jun 20, 2004
    So Calif
    Interested in Plasma look at Panasonic.
    Interested in LCD look at Sony.
     

Share This Page