New Series3 Update

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by TiVoPony, Feb 12, 2007.

  1. Feb 14, 2007 #241 of 1039
    CrispyCritter

    CrispyCritter Purple Ribbon Wearer

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    North...

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    Yes. No company will "officially" support interaction with another company's products unless
    1. the other company has committed to an open standard or
    2. there's an agreement between the two companies.

    I had thought Verizon had committed to CableCard, but it looks like I'm wrong. So TiVo can't officially support Verizon.

    Edit: kjm said the same thing much better and fully while I was off doing other things!
     
  2. Feb 14, 2007 #242 of 1039
    kjmcdonald

    kjmcdonald New Member

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    The response might be worded that way. However I'd be more inclined to expect "we can't fix that problem on FIOS without breaking somethig for Cable.", or "We can't fix that problem on FIOS with out a huge amount of time and expense", or "We can't reproduce that problem, and therefor can't debug it and can't find a fix."

    Although even if those are the real reasons, do to limits on public statements by companies, you still may only hear "We don't [officially] support FIOS at this time."

    -Kyle
     
  3. Feb 14, 2007 #243 of 1039
    kjmcdonald

    kjmcdonald New Member

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    That doesn't mean that the Verizon Network is configured 100% the same as the spec, or that the protocol meta-data transmitted is compliant with the spec.

    It also doesn't mean that Verizon has made any commitment to meet the spec, or to continue to keep up even the similiarity to the spec that they have today.

    ON the provider side there's more to being CableCARD certified than just using cerrtified STB's.

    -Kyle
     
  4. Feb 14, 2007 #244 of 1039
    kjmcdonald

    kjmcdonald New Member

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    CableCARDs don't do any tuning. They only prove to the MSO who you are (ie. what account you have.) and decrypt the encrypted channels.

    Unfortunately they also recieve, (decrypt?,) and make available the channel mapping info the same way the electronics in the STB do. This is the info that the S3 is looking to have, and since it's not there can't use it's guide data to determine what's on those channels at any particular time.

    As I understand it, that's *NOT* the only reason according to how the system was engineered. The other reason to have a CableCARD is to get the network's Channel Map, which is (as far as I know) not possible without a CableCARD.

    People have theorized that the S3 could be programmed to look for an alternate source for this info (the PSIP stream) if provided. I don't know how complicated that is.

    -Kyle
     
  5. Feb 14, 2007 #245 of 1039
    kjmcdonald

    kjmcdonald New Member

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    Exactly, I'm impressed with Verizon's ability to so closely meet the standard without the aid of the certification process. I would have expected more problems.

    Or maybe there are more deviations, and I should be impressed with TiVo's ability to handle and accept them gracefully, and in many cases invisibly?)

    Those two are virtually indistinguishable.

    -Kyle
     
  6. Feb 14, 2007 #246 of 1039
    FlippedBit

    FlippedBit New Member

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    Mountain...

    SCSIRAID, do you have a saved recording with a pixelation and audio dropout in it? I am going to have to remember to note the time on a show with an audio droupout/pixilation event and save it before I get the upgrade.
     
  7. Feb 14, 2007 #247 of 1039
    Bighouse

    Bighouse 200 Club Member

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    Geez, I can't believe I read through ALL 9 pages of this thread looking for info on what users are finding are enabled on the new software update and most of it seemed to be a hijacked thread about FIOS!

    C'mon people...take it to another thread maybe? And, instead, can users who have actually managed to have the 8.1 downloaded please tell me if the Home Media picture viewing has changed significantly to allow for higher res displays of images? I'd also like to hear from other users what they're seeing/finding on the update- and less complaining about what's NOT in it in this thread!

    Thanks, hopefully!
     
  8. Feb 14, 2007 #248 of 1039
    Adam1115

    Adam1115 Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Denver ish
    WHAT?? :confused:

    My understanding of QAM is that Electronic Program Guide information is stored in the PSIP data for each channel. TiVo doesn't use the PSIP EPG because they use their own guide. So while a TV would work fine, using the PSIP Guide, TiVo won't because it doesn't support guide information on these channels.

    If 'the system' you are referring to is the Series3, then yes, you're correct. The Series3 completely ignores the PSIP EPG that the cable company is sending in favor of it's better guide. Fine. But that isn't the cable companies fault.. if TiVo ignores the guide the cable company sends with the channel, then TiVo should engineer a workaround (such as a manual method to remap the guide data to these channels.)

    Using a cablecard as a workaround isn't appropriate...

    Look, I want this to work as much as anyone else. But having to get a cablecard on analog cable just to get guide data on channels that are in the clear is ridiculous!
     
  9. Feb 14, 2007 #249 of 1039
    Maeglin

    Maeglin New Member

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    I have a couple of them, and that's one thing I plan to test. Apparently I'm getting the update next week, though, as a couple forced connections have turned up nothing.
     
  10. Feb 14, 2007 #250 of 1039
    bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

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    Nope. Some cable providers provide limited PSIP data, but most do not. Even for those that do, that is not the guide information you see in your guide with a cable box. In my market, neither Comcast nor FiOS transmits PSIP data correctly (if at all), so we don't get channel mapping, let alone labels or program information.

    On the overwhelming majority of cable systems, program information is only available by query, and that isn't possible with unidirectional cable.

    The guide provided by Gemstar's TVGuideOnScreen is a separate broadcast system (typically using PBS), it does not use PSIP data, as far as I know.
     
  11. Feb 14, 2007 #251 of 1039
    cbm

    cbm New Member

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    Has anyone determined if forcing calls repeatedly ups your odds of getting the 8.1 update or not?
     
  12. Feb 14, 2007 #252 of 1039
    TiVoPony

    TiVoPony New Member

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    Alviso,...

    Just the opposite in fact. ;)

    Don't make me put you on my list! :)

    Pony
     
  13. Feb 14, 2007 #253 of 1039
    kjmcdonald

    kjmcdonald New Member

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    Channel Map != Guide Data.

    They're not the same thing. One is a list of the digital channels the MSO is sending out (86-5 for example) and how they map to the Channel numbers the MSO provides in it's channel listing (813 FOX-HD for example.)

    The other is data like "on 813 a 8pm on Sunday, you'll find the Simpsons."

    There is also 'guide' data on the cable data stream, but that is not the Channel Map, and it also (to the best of my knowledge) uses the '813' number not the '85-6' number.

    The Cable Companies use this indirection to allow them to move the real video data from 85-6 to 101-4 or anywhere else they want at any time they want, as long as they update the 'Channel Map' all the CableCARD devices will be able to find channel 813.

    The Tivo has it's own Guide data, but doesn't have it's own ChannelMap info.
    I suppose Channel Maps could be formed by Tivo for the MSO's localities, but even ignoring the initial work that would take, keeping them up to date would be nearly impossible because the MSO's are free to change them at any time without warning.

    PSIP info is similiar to the Channel Map I beleive. I think if it's populated correctly, then it could be a replacement for it. But I think we have reports that it's not always transmitted correctly by the MSO's.

    So no the 'system' I was talking about was the 'Cable Network <-> Cable Card' system.

    I hope i"m wrong. I hope the Channel Map is actually available without a cable card, but if it is, I don't know why things aren't working better already.

    I agree. I wish it worked otherwise. Some are asking for Tivo to let you manually tell the tivo that 86-5 is 813 FOX-HD, so that it can then use the guide data it has for 813 in it's operations. It may be that this is the only way to make it work without CableCARDs.

    Personally if the PSIP data has the right info, (and if the Tivo QAM Tuner HW makes it available,) I'd prefer that the TiVo try to fallback on that and not require manual intervention. If that were known to work, then we could all lean on our Cable Companies to provide/correct the PSIP info that it appears from other posts the FCC requires the MSO's to transmit.

    Having the manual fallback isn't the worst thing in the world though.

    -Kyle
     
  14. Feb 14, 2007 #254 of 1039
    TiVoPony

    TiVoPony New Member

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    Alviso,...
    No, there are no changes to the photo app in this release. Actually, that's not a box thing at all, but rather a TiVo Desktop thing. ;)

    Pony
     
  15. Feb 14, 2007 #255 of 1039
    mattn2

    mattn2 New Member

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    I second this!! Basic functionality is what I want!

    # Matt
     
  16. Feb 14, 2007 #256 of 1039
    Animgif

    Animgif Stud, Esquire

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    Can I make you put me on the other list ;) :D
     
  17. Feb 14, 2007 #257 of 1039
    SCSIRAID

    SCSIRAID Active Member

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    Yes... Quite a few...
     
  18. Feb 14, 2007 #258 of 1039
    dig_duggler

    dig_duggler Member

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    What's the high end of this release? Two weeks ish? Three weeks ish?

    Just a rough estimate?
     
  19. Feb 14, 2007 #259 of 1039
    SCSIRAID

    SCSIRAID Active Member

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    Yes... I know how these things go... But that doesnt mean I have to like it. :)
     
  20. Feb 14, 2007 #260 of 1039
    hookbill

    hookbill Feathered Member

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    Pony already stated that at the beginning of this thread. Most of us should be getting it next week.
     

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