New DTV TIVO - kind of a joke it took so long

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by bbboris, Dec 26, 2011.

  1. HiDefGator

    HiDefGator New Member

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    I think improvements will be tied to how many are actually sold. If it's 100K of them then you can forget it. The current THR22 will be the last you ever see. Why should Tivo spend time and money on this version of their software when the other version of it is being used by millions of users? Software is very expensive to write, test, and maintain. Unless they can get a return on their investment it won't continue.
     
  2. shwru980r

    shwru980r Well-Known Member

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    Tivo has about 2 million subscriptions, so 100K is a 5 percent increase. Given that Tivo has lost millions of subscriptions over the past few years, I would think they would be pleased with 100K new subscriptions.
     
  3. HiDefGator

    HiDefGator New Member

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    Tivo currently has far less than 1 million active DirecTivo's. That number has been steadily dropping over the last 4 years. If the new DirecTivo doesn't reverse that decline, then Tivo will not be able to justify maintaining an entire code base and project just for Directv Tivo users. Maybe there are that many Directv users who are hard core Tivo fans willing to pay extra for a real Tivo, but that remains to be seen. Tivo can't afford to waste engineering resources on projects with limited future potential for growth. No matter how much Tivo allocates to DirecTivo development, Directv is allocating far more to their own DVR. It's a losing game that will only continue to get worse. For every 2 engineers working on the DirecTivo, there are 5 working on new featuires for the Directv DVR family. And yes I made those numbers up. But you get the point. Tivo doesn't need people still using old Directivo's to upgrade, they need new DirecTivo users to sign up. Even Directv CSR's are apparently warning users when they request a new directivo that they are signing up for older technology that doesn't support all the features of the Directv DVR.
     
  4. midas

    midas I heard that

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    Montgomery,...
    Beyond drivers for the hardware, I don't see why the code base should be very different. I wouldn't be shocked to find out that all the missing features are still in the code, but are just disabled.

    The reason I say that is the Kidzone feature. When I first plugged mine in, it had it listed on the menu page. But it was gone within the first hour when the box just rebooted and installed a software update. Since I don't have kids I didn't even bother to go into it to see if it worked, but the menu item was there.
     
  5. JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    Well the TiVo software isn't necessarily so modular that you can just plug in a different set of drivers. There's a significant amount of specialized code required for DirecTV (conditional access, SWiM, different tuners, different format & source for guide data). Luckily it does seem that the Series 4 hardware uses a similar hardware base (Broadcom BCM system on a chip) but the THR-22 is using a significantly older chip than the Premiere.

    I don't know that the THR-22 will ever be more than a DirecTV Series 3, but I *do* think that as long as the relationship between DirecTV and TiVo doesn't get sour again there's a chance that there will be a Series 4 that is more compatible with all of the stuff current non-DirecTV TiVos will do. Something that is important to note, however, is that DirecTV isn't going to be very keen on TiVo encroaching on a lot of the features that they charge extra for, primarily MRV and now their Nomad service
     
  6. midas

    midas I heard that

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    Why couldn't they still charge extra for MRV? Plus, I'm not sure, from a marketing standpoint, that D* will always charge more for MRV. Right now U-Verse is heavily pushing MRV, now with wireless receivers. I haven't seen Comcast advertising it yet (of course I don't see that many commercials), but I have to imagine once they do there will be a lot of pressure on D* to drop the charge.
     
  7. JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    well, the move is slowly going to be towards the home media center (the server with thin clients) and away from whole home dvr (networking multiple DVRs or full HD non-DVR receivers). No one knows what the pricing might be for the home media center, but I think it'll probably not include an additional fee.
     
  8. midas

    midas I heard that

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    I, for one, hope that never happens. I hate the single point of failure that a media center presents.
     
  9. JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    Well, there's always a single point of failure in the system. In satellite it's the LNB, multiswitch, cabling, power supply for the SWM. There's no way to be 100% redundant. The trick is just for DirecTV to have a good enough support system in place to get people back up and running asap.
     
  10. midas

    midas I heard that

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    The issue is losing all your recordings. With multiple machines I only lose a portion. With a media center, I lose everything.
     
  11. JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    Fair enough, but a) hard drive failures are pretty rare and b) it's just TV. never going to have a perfect system
     
  12. Athenian

    Athenian New Member

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    Maybe so, but lack of knowledge by technicians is not. We just spent 14 months on U-Verse and my number one complaint was that the people in tech support really don't know much about the equipment. They have two standard answers for recording problems: reset the box or have it replaced. We had two boxes replaced for issues that I knew were software bugs and each time, we lost all our recordings.

    I much prefer the DirecTV model where you can use DVRs (albeit not the THD22) as clients to the server if you have them.
     
  13. EmilyEmily

    EmilyEmily New Member

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    After reading this thread, I was expecting the box to have no Standby capacity and for there to be no way to turn off the blue LED ring light. Now that I have the box, I see neither is true.

    This DirecTiVo has a Standby mode just like the old one did -- the physical Power button on the box puts the device in Standby and turns off all the lights (except Record if a recording is in progress), including the LED ring light.

    You can also still access Standby via the remote... the only change is that the Standby option has shifted from the TiVo Central menu to the Messages & Settings menu. So they haven't eliminated Standby, and in fact in a future software update could easily return it to the original location in the home menu. (I always put my old unit in Standby overnight, and I can't help thinking that the decreased recording load had something to do with the unit lasting eight years -- whereas a friend's unit that wasn't put into Standby failed after six or seven years.)
     
  14. wluebke

    wluebke New Member

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    I replaced both of my HR10-250's with the THR22's the day they became available last month. They have been in operation for over 30 days now, everyone in the house just loves them. In fact I just checked the two HR20's in the house and I found no-one has recorded anything on them in the last 15 days. That pretty much says it all. I was forced by popular demand (read uprising) to remove the second THR-22 from my master bedroom and install it in the family room. (Luckily I don't watch much TV in bed)

    The so called "outdated" Tivo interface is the GUI of choice in my house.

    I have only one THR22 hooked to the internet, yet the TIVO suggestions recordings continue to grow and offer solid program choices for the family on both THR22's. This feature never operated properly on the 10-250's but now seems to work even without the internet. Interesting.

    The new HD capability and Channel 1000 on demand seems to keep everyone blazing on the recording front. (I already ordered the internet kit for the family room to quelch the next ... Coup d'├ętat) So many recordings in fact, that the 500GB internal hard drive is already full.

    With so many HD channels & the lack of whole house DVR on the THR-22's, DTV has forced my hand. I have already upgraded the internal hard drive in the family room THR-22 with a 2TB WD20EURS. You don't need Weak Knees, its simply plug and play. Upon initial restart the new hard drive simply format's itself and now you have over 300 hours of HD capability. Its really that simple! Yes you void the warranty, are liable for something or another, blah, blah, blah.

    I say Damn the Torpedo's ... full speed ahead!
     
  15. vurbano

    vurbano Member

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    Wow. I threw my old HR10-250 in the trash yearssss ago when I had D*. it could only recieve a handfull of HD mpeg2 channels and D* went mpeg4. What the heck did you watch on it all these years? OTA and SD?
     
  16. wluebke

    wluebke New Member

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    Yup! Kept one in the master bedroom with a 4:3 TV set, the other in the family room for sports OTA with my HD projector.

    The wife and kids preferred the TIVO interface for watching "TV" programs with our 60" Sony XBR. The big Sony has an excellent internal scaler/upsampler and nobody really noticed the lack of HD quality. (Until now) When we wanted to watch Movies, we simply turned on the 140" overhead projector and switched over to the HR20. (We reserved the HR20 hard drive for recording mainly HD movies.) I also have a HR20 in the living room which is where I did most of "my" TV watching and recording. I have to admit I too never really fully adapted to using the clunky DTV interface and remote. The TIVO interface rules in our house, everyone is happy with new HD TIVO, and life is all about keeping people happy!

    It really comes down to what one is "used to", after all 1 million DTV TIVO owners cannot be all wrong! DTV could not ignore those numbers, with 19 million total subscribers 1 million is a significant financial minority. So the THR-22 finally materializes to service those customers. But more importantly it materializes so "the customer" now pay's for the TIVO convenience fee. No doubt half the $5 fee goes to TIVO, and the other half to DTV.

    In this light it's a "Win Win" for all concerned!

    So you see for us, $5 a month is a small price to pay for our preferred interface. Had our family gotten used to whole house DVR, no doubt I'd be paying an additional $8 a month for that feature too. It's "almost a given" that DTV will be adding this feature to the THR-22 as soon as technically possible. Why, because DTV is in the business of making money and that $8 a month ... well ... itaa add up!
     
  17. sjberra

    sjberra New Member

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    confused, where does the 8 dollars for whole house come in? If oyu are adding the 5.00 tivo fee to teh 3.00 whole house that would be invalid, the thr22 does not work on the whole house system
     
  18. Cutty

    Cutty New Member

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    Rest on their Laurels? Absolutely not. Please let me remind you that TIVO invented the entire DVR concept and has successfully won patent enforcement in several levels of court vs DISH. TIVO's stagnation was the direct result of several providers who thought they could steal TIVO's UI and thus, produce their own branded DVR and cut TIVO out of the mix.

    This whole issue with DTV started when DTV decided to sever their relationship with TIVO several years ago, and steal the DVR UI for themselves, and cut TIVO out of the mix, and thus, reduce their cost. The ONLY reason TIVO hasn't sued DTV is because DTV was smart enough to leave a certain amount of their business intact (while they monitored the DISH suit's progress). Had DTV completely cut TIVO off, I feel sure we would have seen a full court press suit against them, just as they did vs DISH.

    It's no coincidence that as the suit (vs DISH) has made it's way through the court system and has been upheld in appeals, and thus, has progressively leveraged towards TIVO, DTV has magically decided to reinstate their relationship with TIVO. Imagine that?

    Before this litigation is over, many DVR makers may end up owing TIVO a lot of royalties for the rights to use certain DVR features. The hundreds of millions awarded to TIVO in the courts (by DISH) may be just drop in the bucket compared to overall royalties that may be owed.

    Kudos to TIVO for aggressively protecting their technological inventions.
     
  19. fasTLane

    fasTLane Member

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    Well said.:up:
     
  20. Jerry_K

    Jerry_K Don't know much

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    Well stated Cutty. Having now moved on to the DTV product I can tell you there are button push by button push direct steals on the DTV UI from the TiVo UI. While that is criminal in itself, the real insane thing is that even button push by button push, the DTV UI is not robust nor are the machines. Wierd behaviors, need for resets, multiple instances of the same program recording, just poor implementation. And these boxes from DTV have been around a long time now. None of my TiVos had those sorts of issues. Just put in your recordings, and look in the playlist and there they were. Push a button and the TiVo executes the command instantaneously.

    To get the TiVo UI on a DTV box must have been a nightmare for TiVo. I am sure they expected predictable behavior. I wonder how many things they had to fix.

    The killer is no MRV. Not even the less useful multi room streaming. Killed the box for us. We must have some sort of multi room box to box. Otherwise every recording has to be requested on more than one box. DUMB.
     

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