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Network/MoCA help

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by BBQnBEER, Apr 16, 2017.

  1. BBQnBEER

    BBQnBEER New Member

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    I'm dropping Dish and going with Tivo Bolt and Minis. There is one Mini in my garage (lower left) that I don't think will get a wireless connection good enough to stream so I'm thinking about using MoCA since I have the existing infrastructure in place. I've attached a rough sketch of my wiring, My HD Antenna will go up on the roof and replace the Dish. What hardware will I need to properly set everything up? Can I use a mix of WiFi and MoCA? Would it be best just to MoCA all the Minis? network.jpg
     
  2. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    Might Look here for some initial information.
     
  3. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    For best results, try to approach this without using wifi at all. Is any coax available near your router?
     
  4. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    You have 2 good suggestions to consider already. Generally, although a robust wireless network and some good wireless to Ethernet adapter devices can be successful, it is absolutely not supported by Tivo and not recommended by most of the folks here. Your best bet in the absence of Ethernet is to plan on using MoCA. MoCA is builtin to the Tivo Roamio Plus & Pro, the Bolt series, the 4 tuner Premieres and all versions of the mini and it is the most broadly supported networking tool by Tivo.
    Having said this, your diagram is a bit sparce on important details like your source of internet, the location of the router in connection to your Bolt, etc. In general the splitters used on your Dish system are not the best for MoCA and most likely should be replaced with MoCA 2.0 rated splitters. In addition to those, because you are going OTA, you may need a diplexer or 2 and one or more MoCA POE/Whole Home DVR filters, depending on your actual layout.
    This outfit is a good source for everything I have mentioned and you might need, Cable and Satellite Tools - Distributor of Tools for CATV, Satellite, Home Theater, Security, Telecom
    Just search their site for MoCA filter and diplexer if you are interested.
     
  5. BBQnBEER

    BBQnBEER New Member

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    Thanks everyone for taking a look at my diagram and helping out. I have TWC internet that comes in on the second floor and is right next to the Mini/Joey right about the middle of the diagram. In tracing the cables it appears as though the internet is isolated from the TV. I was under the impression that if my Bolt were connected wirelessly to the network it would then act as kind of a hub for the mini(s) that were connected via coax. Is that not the case?

    Do the splitters allow the MoCA signal to pass in both directions? For example, I don't need the signal from the Antenna going from splitter A to splitter C but I do need MoCA to go through B then A then C.
    network.jpg
     
  6. BBQnBEER

    BBQnBEER New Member

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    Yes there router is very close to the coax for the TV. The reason I wanted to do Wireless is because I though 5Ghz 802.11ac connection would be much better than whatever the Tivo Bridge would do. I also have a 200mbps powerline adapter that works well for my current setup, but again peak speeds are just a fraction of wireless.
     
  7. krkaufman

    krkaufman TiVo shepherd

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    That would be great, but unfortunately the BOLT can only bridge between its Ethernet port and MoCA (coax). TiVo CMO, @Ira Bahr, had commented back in October 2015 that TiVo Engineering was looking into enabling such a Wireless/MoCA bridging alternative for the BOLT, but I haven't heard anything on that front since Ira mentioned it. That said, if push comes to shove and a fully-wired network isn't possible, some people setup an isolated wired network for TiVo-to-TiVo device communication, but employ a separate wireless or Powerline bridge between the TiVo wired segment and the router to enable Internet access for the TiVo devices.

    A fully-wired network (Ethernet, MocA or a mix) is the preferred/recommended way to go... both for reliable bandwidth and response time, and to remove devices from the wireless space that can communicate via wire, freeing that bandwidth for devices with no other option.
     
  8. BBQnBEER

    BBQnBEER New Member

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    Apr 16, 2017
    So sounds like I'm going to have to find a way to wire up the Bolt. How responsive are the Minis? What I could do is put the Bolt next to the router and just access it through a Mini. We watch TV 95% of the time where the Hopper is so I'd like for the performance of the appliance to be as good as it can be, if navigating the interface through a Mini is comparable to the interface of the Bolt then I'll have no problem doing that. Also will the MoCA splitters allow communications
     
  9. BBQnBEER

    BBQnBEER New Member

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    Apr 16, 2017
    Would a setup like this work?

    Tivo Plan.jpg
     
  10. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    That setup you diagrammed should work fine, but you will still need to add a MoCA filter on the input of that first 2 way.
     
  11. BBQnBEER

    BBQnBEER New Member

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    Apr 16, 2017
    Thanks fcfc2. Looks like I've got my work cut out for me this weekend.
     
  12. krkaufman

    krkaufman TiVo shepherd

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    Will you be able to get an Ethernet connection to the BOLT, so that the BOLT can establish your MoCA network? (If not, you could just install a MoCA adapter at the router location, in the TV Room, and setup the BOLT with just a coax connection and as a MoCA client.)
     
  13. BBQnBEER

    BBQnBEER New Member

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    Apr 16, 2017
    I have an Ethernet connection to the Bolt available now via powerline adapter, I'm just not utilizing it because I get better speed from wireless. This weekend I'm going to try to use the existing coax between the TV room and Living room to pull a CAT5 and fish tape, then pull the coax back through using the fish tape.

    I also ordered three Holland 2-way Moca Splitters and two POE filters


    TRENDnet | Products | TPL-308E2K | Powerline 200 AV Nano Adapter Kit

    Amazon.com: 2-Way MOCA Splitter 5-1675Mhz: Electronics

    Amazon.com: 2-Pack Extreme MoCA POE-F201C Point Of Entry MoCA Filter: Home Audio & Theater
     
  14. BBQnBEER

    BBQnBEER New Member

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    Apr 16, 2017
    It doesn't look like I'm going to be able to run network to where I want/need it. I did a LAN speed test using a 1GB file and through the powerline setup I have now my speed is 19Mbps up and 17Mbps down to my server. So I have a couple questions.

    Is this speed good enough to plug into the Bolt and run the MoCA?

    How is the performance of a Mini? I have my Bolt sitting next to my router and wired in with an excellent connection (639/307 Mbps). Will there be any lag on the Minis? Will the experience be about the same as viewing on the Bolt?

    Since all devices are downstream from the antenna will the Mini's grab their signal from the Antenna or does it have to go through the Bolt first then to the mini?
     
  15. krkaufman

    krkaufman TiVo shepherd

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    No.

    You'll want to go with the previous suggestion to install a MoCA adapter at the modem/router location, in the "TV ROOM," and then configure the BOLT, connected only via coax in the "LIVING ROOM," as a MoCA client.


    The Mini hardware is older than the BOLT's, so the UI experience will be a bit slower and streaming apps will be a bit pokier to launch; and, at present, the BOLT's and Mini's UIs have a different appearance, creating a slightly different user experience.

    However, in terms of viewing live TV or recorded content, provided you've followed TiVo's recommendations and have all your TiVo devices wired to your network, via either Ethernet or MoCA (and where Powerline does not qualify as Ethernet), the picture quality and playback navigation will be, yes, "about the same" between the BOLT and Mini. (I can't speak to any improvements possible owing to the BOLT's 4K hardware, when paired with a UHD TV.)

    The BOLT will be responsible for all tuning of content coming in via your antenna. On request, the BOLT streams the tuned (or previously recorded) content over the home network to the Mini.

    Streaming apps, on the other hand, are all accessed directly, with content streaming from the service to a given device... though the path that data takes is dependent on the home network infrastructure: If the BOLT is connected and configured as the MoCA bridge, and all the Minis are connected via MoCA, then all streaming app content would flow through the BOLT's bridge. However, if you were to install a MoCA adapter at the modem/router location to act as the MoCA bridge, streaming app content would bypass the BOLT on its way to a Mini.
     
  16. BBQnBEER

    BBQnBEER New Member

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    Apr 16, 2017
    Ok, I looked up the specs of the Tivo Bridge and looks like it'll provide me with a ton of bandwidth from the router. How does my setup look now?

    Tivo Plan.jpg
     
  17. krkaufman

    krkaufman TiVo shepherd

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    Very good; close, but missing the "PoE" MoCA filter on the input to the initial splitter, and you'd want the connection to the BOLT fed off the first split in the "TV ROOM," to minimize antenna signal loss.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  18. krkaufman

    krkaufman TiVo shepherd

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    Nov 25, 2003
  19. krkaufman

    krkaufman TiVo shepherd

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    See here for MoCA adapter options. The TiVo Bridge (a rebranded Actiontec ECB6000) matches the MoCA spec of the BOLT, so either of those MoCA adapters would max the BOLT's throughput. An ECB6200 would be overkill strictly to support the BOLT, but may be of interest if you had designs beyond the TiVo setup.
     
  20. BBQnBEER

    BBQnBEER New Member

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    Apr 16, 2017
    I cant get the Bolt off the first Splitter but I can do a 3 - way splitter and eliminate one. I also added 2 POE filters hopefully in the right place

    Tivo Plan.jpg
     

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