Netflix "Watch Instantly" coming to TivoHD & Series3

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 30, 2008.

  1. Combat Medic

    Combat Medic No guts, no glory

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    IPv6 has nothing to do with the ISP upgrading their infrastructure like they should have. I move tens of gig per second in IPv4.
     
  2. rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

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    I think you misunderstand. Even the Roku box technically "downloads" the stream. It has a buffer that it can use to store parts of the stream. TiVo is doing the same thing with the YouTube app. Even the new XBox Netflix service is going to buffer parts of the stream to the hard drive. Streaming does not imply you can't use a buffer to store parts of the stream. That is inherently implied in any modern streaming technology. TiVo isn't using the user's space (where Now Playing List programs are stored) to save these streams. It is using a temporary buffer which is what Roku and XBox do. One would presume they will be doing the same for the Netflix app.
     
  3. TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    It may "PLAY" the file.. but is it isn't output from the TiVo at 1080p. I have played the same files I have ripped from a Blu-ray disk. From the TiVo you can acutally hear the sound of DD-HD... but it isn't "REALLY" dd-hd your hearing. Still 5.1 not 6.1 or 7.1. Same thing I think is applying to the video. Still coming out the TiVo as 1080i. At least that is what my tv is reporting.

    TGC
     
  4. TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    I think its all "Semantics".

    Think about it... in the Roku box... it is just downloading to it's so called "Buffer" which in turn really is just the RAM of the unit.

    On the XBox 360. It will use the RAM of the XBox to "Buffer" as well. Not actually use the hard drive of a 360 to store any info. (There will be a setting in the XBox control panel to allow you to use the Hard Drive as a buffer if you choose) Play on software uses a buffer on your computer not the Xbox or PS/3

    Netflix on a computer will either use RAM or your hard drive to buffer. Depending on how much RAM you have installed.

    How it work on the TiVo is anyones guess. One thing I would be willing to bet though. Is that the "BUFFER" on the tivo will NOT be holding the entire Netflix movie that your streaming/downloading. It will probably only hold about 15 to 30 min worth at a time. If that at all.

    Personally... I classify streaming as anything that is coming down over a network to a device and is being displayed at about the same time. With or wtihout the use of a "Buffer" and is immediately discarded & NOT saved after viewing. Doesn't matter if the "Buffer" is RAM or Hard drive.

    Downloading IMHO officially is anything that you can view at a later time.

    1. Netflix movies coming to your TiVo will NOT be viewable at a later time.

    2. The entire movie will NOT be saved on your TiVo as a complete whole movie file. Only a certain portion of the Movie will reside on your TiVo at anyone given time. Acting only as a "Buffer" to allow you to view without pauses. Probably the last 5 min of the movie & the next 15 to 30 min that you have yet to view. I have noticed that with my computer I can backup the movie about 3 to 5 min without it "pausing" to go re-grab that previous video.

    Keep in mind that Blu-ray players with the Netflix capability as well as the ROKU box have NO hard drive & are using entirely the RAM built into the machine itself. In the case of Blu-ray players & Roku up to 1gb of RAM. Which gives a buffer on the Roku even HD at about 5 to 10 min. Longer if it's SD.

    TGC
     
  5. mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    No, it's not semantics. Downloads are downloads--you start at the beginning and store it as it comes, whether you allow playback while downloading or not. To see the middle of the clip, you have to wait until it's downloaded that much and to see the end you have to wait for the entire thing to download--you can't skip to it from the beginning. Streaming protocols include commands to start playing at any arbitrary point. While watching YouTube with YouTube's web player, you can slide the progress bar to the end at any time--immediately after you start playing a clip if you want--and a few seconds later you will see the end of the clip, without it downloading (or buffering) any of the intervening portion. (I just moved a few days ago and my TiVo's not connected to the net, so I can try its YouTube player--I played with it for 10 minutes when it first became available and haven't touched it since--yet another of the myriad networked TiVo "features" for which I have absolutely no use :rolleyes:).

    Netflix's Watch Instantly web player works the same way--at any time you can drag the shuttle forward or backward to any point in the film that you're playing and it will advance to that point ASAP, with a brief pause to let it buffer some of the section of the clip that you want to skip to. The important feature of streaming which distinguishes it from "playback while downloading" is random access.

    Real streaming players never store the entire clip (unless it's short enough to fit in their buffers) and their buffers, in memory or on HDD, disappear when you stop playing.
     
  6. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Very well said. The distinction is very important. ReplayTVs did real streaming since you could randomly jump to anywhere in the stream (including ahead of the buffer). To date Tivo has not implemented streaming at all. YouTube and HME "streaming" are really buffered downloads. For the case of streaming from HME the buffer can be very large. I haven't tested how large and what the cutoff may be and if the buffer is circular in nature (so it it reaches the limit it starts removing from the start of the buffer). In any case I would bet that Netflix "streaming" will really be the same buffered download mechanism.

    An advantage of downloading over streaming is your network connection doesn't have to be fast enough to keep up with real time playback, and we all know that the Series 3 Tivos are under performers when it comes to networking.
     
  7. jayfest

    jayfest Not-so-New Member

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    When you go to the Netflix site, one of the tabs on the top should be "Watch Instantly", right next to "Browse DVDs". That shows you the items available for streaming.
     
  8. AbMagFab

    AbMagFab What happened, TiVo?

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    How about this - if it downloads the whole thing, it's not streaming, it's downloading. If it just buffers a small part of it, it's streaming.

    For YouTube, Tivo downloads the whole thing. That's downloading, not buffering.

    I'm betting NetFlix will be the same.

    And they will be using main space for this, not some secret special space.
     
  9. AbMagFab

    AbMagFab What happened, TiVo?

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    Yup. And Tivo's YouTube doesn't work this way. You have to wait for it to fully download to the point you want to see - you can't skip to the middle until that part has downloaded.

    NetFlix on Tivo will likely work the same way.

    Tivo downloads.
     
  10. mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    It seems bizarre that TiVo could interface with YouTube without implementing whatever streaming protocol YouTube is using. As mentioned, I can't currently check it out for myself. If you're watching a long clip, can't you use skip-to-tick to quickly get to the end?
     
  11. gear

    gear New Member

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    I don't think Comcast is worried about their infrastructure being overloaded, I think they want a piece of the pie. I bet they will come up with a cap pricing structure where you pay a fee for going over the cap. They tried to shove VOD down everyone's throat hoping it would catch on before movie downloads via the internet started but it just didn't catch on like they hoped. They wanted to be content providers and own the pipe too. Looks like they will just end up owning the pipe so they want to make sure they squeeze what they can out of that.
     
  12. ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    WOW, there was an appalling lack of knowledge or insight in that piece. what has happened to public radio?
     
  13. jlb

    jlb Go Pats!

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    My head hurts.
     
  14. davezatz

    davezatz Funkadelic

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    FYI I have the New Xbox Experience as of this AM. The Netflix app, my Xbox, and my HDTV all say it's HD... over component. I suppose the content could be downrezed, but I would expect the UI to indicate that.

    I'm working on getting some pics and a video up.
     
  15. Aero 1

    Aero 1 Active Member

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    Dave, are you able to test it using the xbox VGA connection also?
     
  16. davezatz

    davezatz Funkadelic

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    I can only test component and HDMI. It's reporting HD resolutions over component. There may be a requirement over HDMI for a HDCP handshake, but as of now I'm streaming fine over component.

    An Xbox video, some pics, and more thoughts here:
    http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-10/the-new-xbox-experience-with-netflix/
     
  17. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    there should not be any problem over VGA. VGA never had any problems with movie content of HD DVD titles at 1080P.
     
  18. segadc

    segadc New Member

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  19. MickeS

    MickeS Well-Known Member

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    Usually their reporting is better than that. This was embarrassingly incompetent. :)
    And yes, Marketplace is not really NPR, it just happens to be broadcast on the same station here and in may markets.
     
  20. rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

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    The API TiVo will be using should be the same one Xbox/Roku/etc are using. This allows you to jump to different portions of the stream without having to continue streaming from the beginning. AFAIK, TiVo can't change the Netflix API.
     

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