Need help with Networking - Tivos will not reliably see each other.

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by davestein115, Jun 5, 2019.

  1. davestein115

    davestein115 New Member

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    Jul 30, 2016
    I put a new network in my home and have four Tivo devices that, while always connected to the network (obtain and maintain an IP address, visible in whatever table my various routers put out and each is able to connect to the Tivo network as well as stream from the various services without issue) refuse to stay connected and/or recognize the other Tivo devices on the network. They are one Bolt, two Roamios and one Premiere. None of the Tivos are running Hydra. My internet and tv provider is FIOS and internet comes into the home via ethernet.

    The problem is that they refuse to maintain connections with one another. At (apparently random) times Tivo 1 will see 2, 3 and 4 and be able to stream or transfer, yet minutes later, all appear with the dreaded orange exclamation point, sometimes one or more shows up while the other(s) are gone (as in not visible at all) and sometimes none show up. I've had situations where Tivo 1 is streaming from Tivo 2, but Tivo 2 doesn't see any other Tivos on the network despite acting as the server (and it continues to be visible and to serve while it can't see the other Tivos). Initially, I was running a router off an old computer running DD-WRT, but Tivo tech support did not like that. I have since tried using an eero as the router as well as a D-Link router and the Verizon provided router and each has the same issues.

    Tivo explained that it was the result of my using Sonos. Sonos says it was not an issue as I only had one piece of Sonos equipment hardwired into a switch. Nonetheless, I have removed the hardwired Sonos from my network so that there is NO Sonos equipment hooked up (the remainder of my Sonos equipment was running on its own mesh network, not my wifi). I removed all hardwired devices (not just the Sonos) and turned off the eero Wifi system so that the only thing connected to the D-Link or Verizon router (each with wifi turned off) was a single 16 port switch which feeds to switches in the house along the way to the Tivos. Other than switches (all "dumb" switches per the suggestion of eero), the Tivos were the ONLY thing on the network.

    I have experienced the same issue every time with both routers. Things may run smoothly for a bit (never more than an hour) and then Tivos may reappear and disappear at random. Other times, I reboot every piece of hardware on the system (30 seconds with no power) and when the network goes live, the Tivos don't see each other at all or some see some. I'm left to believe it is a Tivo issue. The only thing I have not tried is running every Tivo to one router and avoiding the switches, but in reality, I can't physically do that with the wiring I have in place. Tivo insists that the issue is my hardware setup and it seems they are either unwilling or unable to assist me in this matter, even after I've changed my router (twice) and removed all other hardware (save switches) from my network. I've been told the supervisor in the Philippines is the most senior person I can speak with at Tivo. Ever.

    Any help/advice or suggestions on a further way to address this with Tivo would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks.

    Dave
     
  2. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    It is not just you. My TiVo boxes randomly appear and disappear for each other. When I think that I've identified why, something else occurs to dispel my theory.

    My on-going thought is to blame my less-than-hearty home WiFi system/router (I'm exclusively TiVo WiFi here). But I may be being too hard on my router, as I've gotten a similar result using a well-functioning cellular WiFi hotspot. I've likewise wondering if it the less-than-hearty WiFi adapter that TiVo has put in some boxes, but I've had the same issue when a box is attached to a well-functioning external WiFi bridge.

    In sum, I don't know what the answer is, but it's frustrating. What I have seen, though: restarting a TiVo box (and/or the other) can fix the situation (for the moment)--well, sometimes.

    [sarcasm] Yeah, I know that you think I'm being helpful, here. ;) [/sarcasm]
     
  3. davestein115

    davestein115 New Member

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    Jul 30, 2016
    It's sort of nice to know I'm not the only one but shocked, as someone who has so many Tivo devices that Tivo has split them into three accounts, that they would advise me that I was at the end of the line for support on this issue even though I did everything that was asked of me (and more).

    As to rebooting, I've rebooted EVERY device on my network three different times yesterday and today, and have yet to see all devices active on each Tivo. I had one box that thought it saw all three, but only actually streamed from one with reports of issues connecting to the other two boxes.
     
  4. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    Jul 28, 2005
    I looked this morning and was pleasantly surprised to see my all my TiVo boxes appearing as networked together and accessible. I believe that they were yesterday as well, but not the day before. Without my having done anything or there having been any changes or occurrences (such as a router restart) on my home network. My surprise at today's status perhaps says it all.

    3 thoughts as to the process. First, have you asked the customer service rep. to escalate the issue? I assume so, but thought to ask. Second, it could be (likely?) that TiVo just doesn't know why this occurs (or that it's a known issue but is unfixable, readily at least and/or with TiVo not being willing to employ the resources to do so), including, perhaps, because of the vagaries of individual home networks, WiFi, and routers. (I've had this second circumstance with a supposed conflict between my Roamio box and mainstay AT&T/Netgear router, the connection getting dropped every now-and-again and the TiVo engineer just having told me that it's a known issue and, IIRC, that the only way to fix it is by dropping the router's security setting to the (insecure) WEP protocol.)

    Third, if you want to press matters even if the TiVo rep. says that TiVo won't pursue the issue further, check out TiVo's self-imposed dispute resolution process. Its informal dispute resolution component has been known to get positive results (including as to tech. issues), presumably by kicking the seriousness of the issue up a few notches. Note that the process does not have to proceed to a lawsuit--people have used it, essentially, to get TiVo's serious attention to an issue.

    The dispute resolution policy in its User Agreement: https://tivo.pactsafe.io/legal.html#arbitration.

    A prior thread (there are a few) on the use of the dispute resolution policy/avenue: Tivo Unresponsive to Fixing Issues - Try Dispute Resolution.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  5. davestein115

    davestein115 New Member

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    Jul 30, 2016
    Mike:

    Thanks for your detailed and helpful reply.

    The problem I have is sporadic. This AM on one of my Tivos in a period of 9 minutes I went from having all three other Tivos show up and stream, had all three disappear entirely, had all three show the orange asterisk and variations of one or two showing up and the other(s) either disappearing or showing the orange exclamation point. Given that I have the same issue with three different routers (and with the Sonos off my network), I've got to believe that this is a Tivo issue and not my network.

    As to escalations, when customer service was US-based there was the availability of speaking with a Tier 2 rep if I remember correctly. Now in the Phillipines, it seems as though there is no Tier 2 but I have spoken with two different supervisors. Their suggestions including changing routers (I have now tried 4), running all Tivos connected to the router and getting rid of switches (impossible as 3 of the 4 routers only have one ethernet out port and, the astounding one of "could you bring your Tivos to a friends house and try them there?
     
  6. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    Jul 28, 2005
    I must be more/less (!) fortunate than you: my TiVo networking issue is more brute-like, it seems to either be there or not and then stays that way for a long time.
     
  7. kdmorse

    kdmorse Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Germantown, MD
    Make and model of the dumb switch(s)?

    I ask, because not all dumb switches are as dumb as you'd think, and many have been caught screwing with multicast packets inappropriately. On such switches, if you don't find and disable IGMP (especially in a multi-switch environment) - Tivo's will constantly lose track of each other.
     
    krkaufman likes this.
  8. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    Ashland, PA...
    Hi, I want to help. I have four basic Roamio boxes. One is TE4 and the others are TE3. I changed the TE4 and one TE3 box to wireless. I also have a Mini VOX and two A3 Mini. I will watch to see if they decide to go away. My router is a TP-Link RE580D and I don't think it has an IGMP option (it has few options).

    BTW, something changed in TiVo's wireless networking. My usual transfer speed on wireless was 60Mbps. Now it's up to 90Mbps. Very odd. I need to test the Mini units.
     
    krkaufman likes this.

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