Need help with MoCa network

Discussion in 'TiVo Bolt DVR/Streamer' started by Mars, Jan 5, 2017.

  1. Jan 5, 2017 #1 of 22
    Mars

    Mars Member

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    Hello. Been awhile since I've posted in the TiVo community but I've bought a Bolt and having trouble with the MoCa network. I'm using a MoCa spliter left behind by the previous Direct TV service I had.The Bolt works well connected HDMI to my main tv. One of my minis also works well. But no link up to my second mini. See attached diagram. I finaly gave in to a ethernet connection to that mini that works but is a bit sluggish compared to the coax connection of the other mini. I've read the postings in here and saw talk of changing MoCa channels. Is that something I need to do?
    img001a.jpg
     
  2. Jan 5, 2017 #2 of 22
    compnurd

    compnurd Well-Known Member

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    DirecTV never had a MOCA Splitter.. They use Deca which operates on a lower frequency.. Is the Splitter a DirecTV Green Label Splitter? And do you have a POE Filter anywhere?
     
  3. Jan 5, 2017 #3 of 22
    Mars

    Mars Member

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    IMG_0414[1].jpg
    Comp,
    It is green (see photo). I do not have any filters in the system, seems if I needed that nothing would work. Also can you explain what Deca and POE mean? Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  4. Jan 5, 2017 #4 of 22
  5. Jan 5, 2017 #5 of 22
    compnurd

    compnurd Well-Known Member

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    DECA is DirecTV Version of MOCA except it runs at a very low frequency.. Those Splitters should work fine.. But without a POE Filter off the main charter.. It can cause your Moca signals to bleed back into the system we can cause your issue
     
  6. Jan 5, 2017 #6 of 22
    fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the diagram. As already noted the standard green label Directv splitters are not optimized for MoCA on CATV. DECA which is Directv's version of MoCA uses the frequencies 500-800MHz normally used by CATV, which is why you can't mix DECA with CATV and why you can't use MoCA(1100-1675MHz) with Directv.
    Looking at your setup, you need at least one MoCA POE or Whole Home DVR filter on the input of that 4 way splitter, but that alone may not resolve your MoCA issues. The 2 most reliable brands of truly MoCA "rated" splitters are from Verizon and Holland, many other brands mention "MoCA" or "MoCA compatible" which is meaningless.
    These are a favorite and reasonably priced, Cable and Satellite Tools - Distributor of Tools for CATV, Satellite, Home Theater, Security, Telecom
    Just avoid the ones on the bottom of the list that say Directv as these are really for the DECA system. Also if you know you don't need that extra port on the 4 way splitter, consider replacing it with a 3 way to get slightly less signal loss. If you decide to go for the upgraded splitters consider picking up a couple extra 2 ways in case you want to install other MoCA devices later. These same folks sell a MoCA filter for about $3.69. Might also check to make sure your cable modem is MoCA compatible and if not order another filter.
     
  7. Jan 6, 2017 #7 of 22
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Worse, they ARE optimized for DirecTV's MoCA (DECA), which means they have lower output port-to-port isolation in the DirecTV MoCA (MoCA E-band) frequency range, 400-700 MHz (bad for your TV signals) and higher port-to-port isolation at satellite TV frequencies, 950-2150 MHz (very bad for CATV MoCA, i.e. MoCA D-band).

    So, you *will* want to replace the DirecTV splitter with a MoCA 2.0-compliant splitter per fcfc2's recommendation above (avoiding the 2 models labeled "DirecTV," as stated). It's difficult to provide a more specific recommendation, not knowing where your cable modem is located. Generally, you wouldn't want a single 4-way split as the current setup appears to have; instead, you'd want to deliver the best possible source signal to your modem and CATV tuner (i.e. the BOLT), with priority usually going to the modem. The MoCA-only feeds can be hung from a secondary splitter.

    As for the "PoE" MoCA filter, you'll definitely want to get one installed. It's not just to keep your signals secured within your home, but to improve MoCA performance by reflecting the MoCA signal back onto the lines. In fact, if you were to have one on that DirecTV SWM splitter, it might help overcome the high port-to-port isolation -- though you'd *still* want to replace that splitter.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
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  8. Jan 6, 2017 #8 of 22
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Page 20 from PCT employee Doug MacLeod's 'MoCA Basics' presentation provides a great illustration of the performance benefit of the PoE MoCA filter.

    upload_2017-1-5_23-18-39.png
     
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  9. Jan 6, 2017 #9 of 22
    Mars

    Mars Member

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    IMG_0416a.jpg Thanks for the good information on this guys. I have ordered Holland splitter and filter as recommended. Meanwhile a new questions. When the Charter did my install I did not have my TiVo bolt yet (came the next day) so he left me with instructions and some sort of box that I didn't install. Anyone know what this is for? See photo. As I mentioned earlier the TiVo Bolt is working without this box inline.
     
  10. compnurd

    compnurd Well-Known Member

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    It is a tuning adaptor.. You may/probably need it to receive all of your channels
     
  11. Peter G

    Peter G Member

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    Charter gave me the same box but so far I have not set it up. One CSR said I would not need it, but when I picked up the Cable Card they gave me the TA. I seem to get all the expected channels without it.

    Peter G
     
  12. Mars

    Mars Member

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    Thanks Peter,
    I've been getting all the channels I expected too. I especially didn't like the connection configuration that requires both coax and eithernet connections to the Bolt, using the only port available to get content off the internet. I think I'm putting it back in the closet.
     
  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Right. That's a tuning adapter, for assisting in tuning Switched Digital Video (SDV) channels (huh?) -- which you may or may not need, depending on your local provider and your programming package.

    Not sure what you're referring to, there. If your BOLT is networked via MoCA, so no Ethernet cable is currently connected, installing a tuning adapter wouldn't change that.

    *IF* you had to install the tuning adapter (TA) with the BOLT, you'd just need to make sure the BOLT and TA were both directly-connected to the coax lines (via a splitter, rather than the BOLT connecting to the "RF/TV Out" port of the TA), and you'd also connect a USB cable between them for control communications.

    The splitting of the signal to each device is typically recommended to ensure the BOLT wouldn't suffer any signal issues for non-SDV channels should the TA be offline for any reason. However, to ensure continued MoCA connectivity for the BOLT, you MUST use this split, direct connection approach because the "RF/TV Out" port of a tuning adapter does not pass MoCA signals (or at least not without severe loss). Additionally, it's possible that the tuning adapter *may* need a protective MoCA filter installed on its input, for MoCA installs, to ensure that the TA isn't affected by MoCA signals (and vice versa); see >this post< for more on the protective MoCA filter for TAs.

    ---
    Which is all basically the same as this older post I was finally able to find, though this older post includes a helpful diagram from Cox's TA installation guide -- which applies to any "TA w/ MoCA" installation...
     
  14. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    If you ordered just the one splitter, I'm going to re-post an excerpt from above, in case it was missed...


    It's also difficult to imagine you don't have at least one other existing splitter somewhere else, which may also warrant an upgrade, assuming the cable modem/gateway is connected to the same coax lines.
     
  15. Mars

    Mars Member

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    Here is an updated block diagram showing the position of the cable co. provided splitter. If I understand the advice given here I will be replacing the Direct TV splitter with a Holland MoCa splitter. I also plan to install a Holland POE MoCa filter on the input to the new splitter. What do you think?
    img002a.jpg
     
  16. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    How is your MoCA network being created, by what device?

    The diagram is an improvement, thanks, but it doesn't indicate what Ethernet connections might exist, or if you have a separate router... and without knowing this info, especially where the MoCA-to-Ethernet bridge is located, I'd have to say put the "PoE" MoCA filter on the actual point-of-entry, the input to the "cable provider splitter." If the BOLT is creating your MoCA network, you could improve your MoCA performance a bit (and the signal strength at the cable modem a hair) by installing the "PoE" MoCA filter on the input to the secondary splitter (soon to be the Holland MoCA model).
     
  17. Mars

    Mars Member

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    Kr,
    Yes the MoCa comes from the coax "in" connector of the Bolt. I do not plan to use ethernet connections at all anymore. This will cut down on traffic on my home network.
     
  18. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Ok, so just the one Ethernet connection to the BOLT, then, right?

    If so, yes, you could install the "PoE" MoCA filter on the input to the splitter feeding your rooms, rather than the initial splitter. The coax line running to the modem would NOT have a MoCA signal.

    p.s. With just 3 coax connections shown, hopefully you took fcfc2's advice...
    ... and opted for the unbalanced 3-way splitter model, to deliver the maximum signal strength to the BOLT (feeding the BOLT from the low-loss 3.9 dB port).

    p.s. And no need to upgrade the initial 2-way splitter to MoCA-compatible if the PoE MoCA filter will be installed on the input of the secondary splitter.
     
  19. Mars

    Mars Member

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    I received the Holland splitter and POE today, installed per my attached drawing, and all minis and the Bolt are working just fine now. Thanks to all that helped with this :)

    img003a.jpg
     
    fcfc2 and krkaufman like this.
  20. JammasterC

    JammasterC giggty, giggty

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    Can I ask, what type is the initial splitter accepting cable from the street?
    Is it a typical 5-1002Mhz?
     

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