Need help MoCA or Range Extenders

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by Banana-Heads, Oct 7, 2017.

  1. Oct 7, 2017 #1 of 52
    Banana-Heads

    Banana-Heads Member

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    Unable to get MoCA to work. The attached picture is my setup. My premier was on a Wi-Fi range extender with a cat 5 cable. Expected signal drops and poor picture but only on rare occasions. Surprisingly good signal most of the time. The cat 5 cable was removed for MoCA setup.

    Tivo Mini is new as is Tivo bridge and supplied splitter. Only one green light on bridge. Did suggested test with Mini directly connected to bridge. Still no second green light.

    So I had a thought. Put back range extender on Premier and add one to Mini. Cat 5 in both. Then add a Google mesh system and connect the units directly to them. Mini cannot find the Premier. Same subnet. Same IP network. In my mind it should work yet it doesn't. So both of my attempts at getting the Mini to work have failed.

    I was looking at getting in on the current Bolt special. Transfer your lifetime from a Premier 4 and get a Bolt for $299. Problem is, it ends tomorrow (10/8). I know the Bolt has built in MoCA but who knows if that will work. They do have a 30 day return policy so maybe I will try it anyway.

    When I called 'support,' in the Philippines, one rep told me to put a bridge at my router and at the Premier. Next one said no bridges needed at all. All combo modems/routers have built in MoCA. All of them. Last one said put a bridge on every unit including the Mini. Tivo phone support is complete garbage. Didn't used to be that way.

    Any ideas how I can get one of these options to work? Or better yet, someone I can speak to that isn't reading a script or just making stuff up. After 3 dreadful support experiences, I'm thinking about throwing in the towel and looking for other solutions but wanted to give it one last shot.

    Tivo Setup.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  2. Oct 7, 2017 #2 of 52
    sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't the Premier 4 XL have builtin in MoCA client/bridge also?

    How are the Premiere 4XL and TiVo Mini Coax connected to the rest of the system? Is the "Provider - Spectrum Wall" the Point of Entry or just the room where you have the bridge and cable modem located?
     
  3. Oct 7, 2017 #3 of 52
    Banana-Heads

    Banana-Heads Member

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    I thought it was built into the 4 but in settings there is no option to use MoCA. Running latest firmware. I haven't been able to find anything about this in search.

    The coax to the router/bridge is coming into the house from outside (provider.)
     
  4. Oct 7, 2017 #4 of 52
    fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah,
    Based on your "diagram" which actually shows zero connections between your various Tivos and no mention what so ever of anything resembling a MoCA filter, it is not hard to believe you cannot get a MoCA network working.
    If you ever do, get a piece of paper and start sketching out how your coax is actual run starting with the point where the Spectrum connection connects to your home. You will need to show all coax splitters from that point out to your Tivos.
    The 4 tuner Premieres do in fact have MoCA builtin so not sure why you can't seem to find out how to enable it. If you want to purchase a Bolt to have a newer, faster unit with both OTA and cable options do so. If you want to get a MoCA network working, please provide the requested sketch. Most folks trying to use MoCA either get lucky or find they need to do a couple hours of homework to be successful. If any of this is beyond your scope....throw in the towel.
     
  5. Oct 7, 2017 #5 of 52
    sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    It should be under

    Settings & Messages->Network Settings->Change Network Settings->MoCA

    Maybe you can review this:
    How to Set Up a MoCA Network for Your TiVo Premiere DVR - TiVo

    That is still a little ambiguous. Usually there is a point on the outside of your home where the line from Spectrum comes in, then you split that signal to feed the rest of the home. Is that the 2-split in your diagram? How do the other rooms get their coax? It seems you have a split before the 2-split in your diagram, but it isn't depicted.
     
  6. Oct 7, 2017 #6 of 52
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I've been responding to the OP's thread over on TiVo Help Forums, here. A key factor is that their Premiere is a 2-tuner model, lacking any MoCA functionality and incompatible as a Mini host DVR, so they'll need to upgrade to a BOLT; and they're a Spectrum customer with a Tuning Adapter, as well. Also, while waiting for the BOLT to arrive, they can perform the basic MoCA connectivity test between the TiVo Bridge and Mini, and then evaluate MoCA connectivity in each room; but, yeah, they also need to identify how the rooms interconnect.

    Current advice given information available...

    MoCA bridge w BOLT&TA.png
     
    sfhub and fcfc2 like this.
  7. Oct 7, 2017 #7 of 52
    sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    That is a key point as to why the Premiere doesn't have MoCA and I don't doubt it, but it doesn't match the OPs diagram that he posted above, where his Premiere is labeled Premiere 4 XL.
     
  8. Oct 7, 2017 #8 of 52
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Follow the link to the TiVo Help Forums thread.

    p.s. The naming of the Premiere series, the TiVo Series 4, is unfortunate given how they opted to name later models within the series. I find it helpful to simply ask whether they have a 2- or 4-tuner model to get around the series/model naming confusion. (A Premiere 4 is a 4-tuner model, but a Premiere XL is a 2-tuner model, so obviously needing clarification.)
     
  9. Oct 7, 2017 #9 of 52
    Banana-Heads

    Banana-Heads Member

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    Yes. krkaufman has been very helpful. I will request a closure of the other thread and leave it here.

    I did the test again with the link krkaufman provided. Hooked up a portable TV and MoCA is now working. Both lights on. Before I didn't add the TV. Just thought the light would come on.

    Now that I know that it's working and my Premier 4 XL 2 tuner is not compatable with the Mini, I'll be ordering a Bolt. My Premier does not have a MoCA option in Network Settings or anywhere. Not sure why. That alone is a deal breaker unless I can flash the firmware or have Tivo push a SW upgrade if that's possible. Is that possible?

    So now my plan is to buy a Bolt. Add a splitter to the tuning adapter\Bolt and put a PoE filter at the tuning adapter. Correct?

    This picture attached is what is outside. One side from the Spectrum junction box. The other going into the attic. It appears to have PoE filters on each end but I don't know enough about them to be sure. There are splitters in the attic going to the router and the Mini. I need to clean up things up there to even get to it.

    outside.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  10. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    That is because the 2-tuner doesn't have MoCA (and it also doesn't allow a Mini to use its tuner for LiveTV).

    The confusion is when you list Premiere 4 XL. It would be less confusing to list Premiere XL. Premiere 4 XL 2 tuner is also ok. Basically only the 4 tuner Premieres have MoCA and can shared their tuner with a Mini. Mini can still access recorded shows on a 2-tuner, it just can't use the tuner from the 2-tuner for LiveTV.
     
  11. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    As stated in the TiVo Help Forum thread, the 2-tuner Premieres have no MoCA functionality, so your "TiVo Series 4 Premiere XL" would need a MoCA adapter at its location to connect to an established MoCA network for a wired network connection. Again, this is moot if the Premiere is your only DVR, since the XL cannot act as a host DVR for a Mini; however, it's something to keep in mind should this Premiere's Lifetime service somehow remain active after your new BOLT and Mini are fully operational. (i.e. With a BOLT set as a Mini's host DVR, recorded or recording content on a 2-tuner Premiere could be streamed to the Mini.)
     
  12. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Yes, that'll get you most of the way there, but you'll need to review your attic coax setup for MoCA compatibility and ensure that you *do* have a MoCA filter installed at your PoE (or on the input to the first splitter encountered by the incoming cable signal).

    Remember that now that you've initialized the Mini with a MoCA connection you can use the Mini to test the MoCA connectivity at both locations targeted for your TiVo devices. And if the Mini successfully connects to the MoCA network at either location, you can check the Mini's MoCA stats to evaluate the quality of the MoCA connection. (see here for how to check MoCA stats)

    But, again, the Mini successfully connecting doesn't mean you should forgo checking the attic setup and ensuring you have a "PoE" MoCA filter in place.

    This MoCA prep can happen while waiting for the BOLT to arrive.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    From what my admittedly deficient eyes can see, it just looks like you have two coax cables with weather-sealed compression fittings connecting at a ground block in the outside junction box, with the Spectrum coax connecting to a coax line heading into your house. (i.e. I don't see a "PoE" MoCA filter in that picture.)

    See this post for more info on the "PoE" MoCA filter.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  14. Banana-Heads

    Banana-Heads Member

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    The MoCA worked at the Premier. Going to get a MoCA PoE filter for outside and a MoCA splitter for the tuning adapter. Will keep my bridge as I may decide to add lifetime to the Premier. I bought the Bolt and they are transferring my lifetime to it from the Premier.

    Am on hold for tech support about the MoCA option missing from networking in the Premier. I'm hoping they can push a new firmware to the box.

    Thank you for all your help. I've learned that this is a valuable forum. If I ever need assistance again, I won't waste time calling the Philippines, will just come here. And if I can help someone else, will be happy to do it.
     
  15. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    For the love of dogs, how many times do we need to tell you that 2-tuner Premieres have ZERO MoCA functionality. It's not a firmware issue; they lack the hardware.

    (Now, if you actually have a 4-tuner Premiere, that'd be a different matter.)
     
  16. Banana-Heads

    Banana-Heads Member

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    According to Tivo, it does.

    How to Set Up a MoCA Network for Your TiVo Premiere DVR - TiVo

    moca.JPG
     
  17. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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  18. Banana-Heads

    Banana-Heads Member

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    My post said I would be using a MoCA bridge with the Premier XL, not using it as a stand alone MoCA device.

    The firmware is abnormal as it's missing the MoCA selection in Network setup. That is a firmware issue. I called tech support to see if they could do a push. Before we got disconnected, she actually asked me to reboot the box to see if the MoCA selection would 'appear.' This is the cracker-jack outsourcing Tivo has opted into.

    The output of the block is about 8 ft. to the attic and a heck of a lot easier to get to. If it will make that much difference I'll put the filter directly in the attic.

    Thanks again for all the help.
     
  19. UCLABB

    UCLABB Well-Known Member

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    Your Premiere is going to be deactivated as part of the transfer of lifetime to your new Bolt. I don’t think they would let you buy new service for it nor do I think you would want to given the cost. You should return the bridge. If you want TiVo capability at that location, your best bet would be to get another mini.
     
  20. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    Premiere XL 2-tuner doesn't have MoCA builtin.

    You might have trouble after you finish Step 1 and try to complete Step 2

    The instructions are asking you to add an external MoCA adapter at your router (in Step 1) and a separate external MoCA adapter at your Premiere XL 2-tuner (in Step 2)

    MoCA.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
    krkaufman likes this.

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