MVDP with TiVo

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by Pacomartin, Dec 20, 2014.

  1. Pacomartin

    Pacomartin Member

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    I wonder if MVDP's that use TiVo are improving their competitive position. I saw that Suddenlink claimed to be the 7th largest cable company in the USA. I thought they were 9th. Did they pass AT&T, and Bright House?

    Do the use of TiVo instead of Motorola boxes improve their position?

    I don't think there are any recent rankings of MVDP's by numbers of subscribers. I only see ones with data from 2010 or earlier. I would assume that companies have grown sensitive about that information.

    Has anyone seen a recent ranking?
     
  2. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    There is very little direct cable to cable competition even within major markets - so a customer cannot choose one cable provider over another based on the quality of anything.

    You can choose between cable and satalite - and a bad consumer product can easily push a user in that direction.
     
  3. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    From: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_television_in_the_United_States#Statistics

    Top 12 Largest Cable Companies by Number of Subscribers (as of Q3 2014)

    Rank Provider Subscribers
    1. Comcast 22,376,000
    2. Time Warner Cable 11,030,000
    3. AT&T U-verse 6,067,000
    4. Verizon FiOS 5,533,000
    5. Cox Communications 4,300,000[22]
    6. Charter Communications 4,296,000
    7. Cablevision 2,715,000
    8. Bright House Networks 2,013,145[23]
    9. Suddenlink Communications 1,171,000
    10. Mediacom 900,000
    11. WOW! 653,800
    12. Cable One 476,233

    This would appear to be as recent as possible.
    The NCTA used to provide tabular data like this at
    https://www.ncta.com/industry-data
    but now their data is obscured in a bunch "colorful" graphics. I imagine you could find recent data at the FCC web site but it isn't worth the trouble to me.
     
  4. Pacomartin

    Pacomartin Member

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    Thank you for your research.

    I don't think NCTA publishes this data anymore. I have looked at Fcc website, and I could only find fiscal year 2010.

    But the TV data looks terrible for the cable companies compared to just a few years ago. Fortunately, they seem to be making it up in broadband increases.

    It looks like the power is in the Big 7 Media, but there is crossover between the cable companies and the Media firms.


    1. Time Warner Revenue: $44.7 billion
    2. Disney Revenue:$34.3 billion
    3. News Corp. Revenue: $25.3 billion
    4. Bertelsmann AG Revenue: $23.0 billion
    5. GE Revenue: $14.7 billion
    6. CBS Revenue: $14.4 billion
    7. Viacom Revenue: $9.6 Billion
     
  5. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Remember, Time Warner and Time-Warner Cable are no longer the same outfit.
     
  6. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    Right. Time Warner creates content or programming. TWC is the quasi-monopoly that delivers it, now and then, to your TiVo.
     
  7. Series3Sub

    Series3Sub Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, Disney is the highest valued. It truly is the King of media companies.
     
  8. Series3Sub

    Series3Sub Well-Known Member

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    And with the merge (if approved) of AT& Uverse and DirecTV, they would leapfrog over Comcast to become the largest at over 26 million subscribers.
     
  9. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    Suddenlink, GCI, and others don't really compete with anyone. What would be interesting is RCN, since they compete with at least Comcast or TWC, and often with FIOS as well.
     
  10. JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    MSOs having TiVo would only be a competitive advantage against satellite and telephone companies.

    The video industry is a little more complicated than it used to be, but it's not like I, as a Bright House customer, could switch to Suddenlink because Suddenlink has TiVos.

    I think if anything things like TiVo will serve as a competitive advantage against cord cutting and keeping VOD transactions from going completely to OTT services, but price is a major factor in that as well.
     
  11. Pacomartin

    Pacomartin Member

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    I suppose I should have defined competitive advantage as retention rates and revenue per household. I am aware that most people have limited choices.

    Some data was posted earlier that indicated over 2010-2014 the losses in basic video customers were:
    -26.8% Cable One
    -25.2% Mediacom
    -13.4% Cox Communications
    -12.1% Time Warner Cable
    -10.8% Cablevision
    -8.2% Bright House Networks
    -7.7% Charter Communications
    -4.6% Suddenlink Communications
    -2.4% Comcast

    As Suddenlink has TiVo boxes (I am not sure what kind of penetration that Comcast has with TiVo) there seems to be some indication the TiVo may help with retention. But I am sure there are many factors that influence the overall number of subscribers.

    The big gainers were:
    67.2% WOW!
    84.4% AT&T
    102.0% Verizon FiOS

    On the other hand there is data for RCN Lehigh Valley from the Fcc that says

    2010 81,214
    2009 87,292
    2008 102,441
    2007 99,196

    This data seems to indicate that when RCN went digital in Sep 2009 and required Motorola set top boxes that 20K customers left and went somewhere else (probably mostly to SECTV which was is their competition and was still analog). There is no data posted after 2010 so when TiVo boxes were introduced in 2012 it is not clear if more customers left, or if retention rates were higher.

    Since most of the valley cannot pick up even ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX with antennas, I think relatively few went to pure Over the Top Services like Netflix and NFL online.
     
  12. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    That's interesting data, although sifting the effects of TiVo out of that is nearly impossible . RCN Boston would be interesting, although Comcast and Verizon both have their advanced DVRs out as well, that provide [arguably] decent knock-offs of TiVo. It's also hard to tell what various companies' competitive exposure is. I know CableVision has heavy exposure to FIOS, whereas Comcast has some exposure to FIOS, some exposure to U-Verse, a lot of monopoly areas, and some limited exposure to RCN, Astound, and other overbuilders.

    I have Comcast solely because of TiVo. If retail TiVos were interoperable with DirecTV, I'd have that, because my local market hasn't been rebuilt and has a thin line-up, but I'm not the typical customer out there who just rents whatever crap their local cable company give out for "free" with their triple-play package.
     
  13. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

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    Assuming that the Comcast-TWC merger doesn't happen.
     
  14. Pacomartin

    Pacomartin Member

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    Yes, you need internal data to try to sort out various effects

    But RCN has limited numbers of households outside of Lehigh Valley and Chicago. The markets DC, NYC, PHL, and BOS together make up less than half the households RCN serves.

    From the look of it, in Lehigh Valley people just don't want boxes. The customers are older and less concerned about HD. From Sep 2009 they just had Motorola's with limited DVR service (160 Gb on one TV). From summer 2011 they had TiVo available, but I think it took them a few months until it was widespread.

    So there is at least one person who chooses his television provider based on TiVo.
     
  15. lessd

    lessd Well-Known Member

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    I guess I am the 2nd as we can use U-Verse, satellite, or Comcast in my area (I think U-Verse is selling out now in my area of Hartford CT).
     
  16. HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

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    Make it three. I'd have DirecTV back in a heartbeat if they had a viable TiVo option to speak of!
     
  17. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

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    John's...
    While TiVo isn't the only reason I prefer Comcast to either U-Verse or DirecTV, it is the reason that I don't even consider them.
     
  18. JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    You also need to look at other things those companies do, what kind of competition they're up against (telco and satellite), and how well they compete in other areas (channel lineups, customer service, pricing, etc).

    I think you'll find some of those more "competitive" MSOs are more customer friendly, have better support via online channels, not cablecard hostile, not customer hostile, have better pricing, etc. I'm sure there is some advantage gained to having TiVo, but it would be extremely difficult to say TiVo is *the* reason for those numbers
     
  19. Pacomartin

    Pacomartin Member

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    The main competition to RCN in our area is Service Electric Cable TV (first CATV company in the USA) which doesn't even offer a DVR. Their HD converter is $9.95 a month.

    In this sense RCN is ultra competitive as they offer the non-retail product TiVo Preview for $9.95 which is HD converter that can also play and command the TiVo DVR. For only $12.95 you can rent a Series 4 TCD746320 (aka TiVo Premiere, 2010 model with 320 Gb). That is a particularly good deal as most TiVo retail customers pay $15 plus cableCARD fee.

    Combined the TiVo with 25 Mbps internet speed compared to 7 Mbps it seems difficult to understand how SECTV stays in business.
     
  20. Diana Collins

    Diana Collins Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Until Comcast merges with TWC and so grows to over 30 million, at which point about half of all US households will be customers of those 2 companies. Does anyone think that is a good thing for consumers?
     

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