MRV is a Must Have!!!

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by larrs, Sep 19, 2006.

  1. larrs

    larrs Movie Fan-Addict

    1,028
    6
    May 2, 2005
    DFW

    Advertisements

    Ok, I can understand how things work and that MRV may be a pain for Tivo with the S3, but I am sure I am not the only one in the world who feels it is absolutely necessary to have MRV before buying an S3. Most of us in the Tivo early adopter category already have multiple Tivos, so we use the MRV. I for one cannot possibly live without it although to a certain extent I am now.

    With networks evolving like they have, I can't understand how this was left out. I can understand the TTG since theoretically you could use that to distribute over the 'net, but MRV is a different story. Even if they started out by forcing the MRV to be downrezzed to 480i before being distributed to the next Tivo, I could understand as very few will have 2 S3's for some time.

    C'mon Tivo.
     
  2. Stanley Rohner

    Stanley Rohner New Member

    4,721
    0
    Jan 18, 2004
    oklahoma
    I've never used MRV.
     
  3. nhaigh

    nhaigh Member

    984
    0
    Jul 16, 2001
    Lawrencevill...
    The lack of MRV will stop be buying a second S3. For now I have an S2 in the other room recording the same stuff :)
     
  4. Riverdome

    Riverdome Member

    200
    3
    May 12, 2005
    I ordered my S3 as soon as they were available. If there isn't some good news on the MRV front in the next year or so I will seriously have to consider selling my S3 (with lifetime) for as much as I can get. Without MRV Tivo isn't $1000 better than my cable company option.
     
  5. bap

    bap pab

    104
    0
    Dec 6, 2003
    North o'...

    Advertisements

    MRV has never been a "must have" for me or a number of my friends. We all only have a single TiVo in our respective houses. If they add it in the future as a feature then great. If not then it's no real loss to me.
     
  6. Dssturbo1

    Dssturbo1 New Member

    1,871
    0
    Feb 22, 2005
    So do you understand tivo could do it but since the S3 has to have cablecard lab certification they could not.
    the cc lab would not give them ceritfication with TTG and MRV. tivo is trying but no go so far. write the cc lab and fuss at them, ......understand?
     
  7. classicX

    classicX Don't scream.

    4,897
    1
    May 10, 2006
    Miles away...
    I agree with the OP. Even if I were willing to pay $800 for the S3, No MRV would be a big dealbreaker. I want to replace both of my cable DVRs. But currently, outside of wishlists and the Tivo interface, there is no difference between Tivo and "my" SA8300's. I'm not only waiting for the price to drop, but for MRV to be enabled. If it's not, I will probably never buy another Tivo. :-(
     
  8. quango

    quango Member

    180
    0
    Sep 25, 2005
    Macon, Georgia
    I hope you realize that CableLabs is the party that blocked TiVo from enabling MRV on the Series 3. If it were up to TiVo, MRV and TTG would be enabled today.

    My guess is that some sort of MRV and TTG (at least for non-digital cable programming) will be available soon, once TiVo has a chance to adjust the software to meet CableLabs' requirements. Hopefully CableLabs will see the light and let them enable TTG and MRV on all programming, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that...
     
  9. Dssturbo1

    Dssturbo1 New Member

    1,871
    0
    Feb 22, 2005
    it's like mercedes puts a 155 mph governor on one of their cars that can do 180 mph. it can do it but disabled or restricted due to contracts/agreements.
     
  10. classicX

    classicX Don't scream.

    4,897
    1
    May 10, 2006
    Miles away...
    That is only partly correct. CableLabs is currently "evaluating" the S3 with those features, which is going to take 180 days, and was started only recently. You're statement that CableLabs wouldn't certify it with TTG and MRV is false, because they haven't even EVALUATED those features yet. This leads me to believe that Tivo, to push the CableLabs certification as early as possible, submitted the earliest "release candidate" S3 without those features because they either weren't ready or didn't think it would be certified with them on.

    This screams "rush to market" to me. This is why even if the price was right, I wouldn't have purchased one - products rushed to market usually have bugs and other problems, as evidenced by the other threads in this forum.

    Tivo is a company like any other, and they have the same triple contstraint as every other.

    SCHEDULE / TIME
    BUDGET
    QUALITY

    Choose TWO. Tivo apparently chose budget and schedule, so quality suffered. (Note, this doesn't mean that I think the S3 isn't a quality product, but missing features is, effectually, lesser quality.)
     
  11. wbradney

    wbradney New Member

    79
    0
    Mar 3, 2003
    OP's points well taken. I'm a little conflicted on this issue. I ordered mine without fully appreciating the reasons why MRV and TTG are missing, thinking that they would be released in a update in short order, but after having read about the CableLabs situation it seems impossible for TTG to ever be possible, MRV might be possible in a limited form.

    For me MRV is far more useful, since I'll be moving my old upgraded S2 to another room, and it still has 500 hours of shows waiting for me (which I'll now be forced to watch in the other room). TTG I never really found a compelling need for, so I could easily give that up. Overall I still think an HD TiVo is worth it without these features, so I won't be cancelling my order.

    I still don't really understand why one-way MRV from S2 -> S3 isn't allowed by CableLabs, given that the analog content on my S2 isn't covered by the CableCard restrictions. It's clear why they'd be nervous about allowing anything to leave the S3.

    I can only imagine that CableLabs insisted that the MRV/TTG features be excluded from the codebase entirely, given TiVo's history of being very permissive with respect to hacks/upgrades.

    For me it would be fine if they allowed any unprotected content *into* an S3, but allow nothing at all *out*. That'd allow the S3 to be a pretty compelling media center/extender device.
     
  12. propermodulation

    propermodulation Member

    39
    0
    Jan 12, 2006
    I only have one big screen HD TV, so unless I want to stand out in the hallway to watch it I have no reason to view from another room.
     
  13. msu2k

    msu2k New Member

    133
    0
    Jan 4, 2001
    Holt, MI
    I also have no need for MRV. Coming from a 120 hour DTivo, having the eSATA working is much more important to me.
     
  14. wbradney

    wbradney New Member

    79
    0
    Mar 3, 2003
    Me too, but the S3 can still grab analog content, too, which could be made available to an S2 in another room attached to a regular NTSC set. That's how I use the two S2s I have now, and it's pretty useful to be able to start watching one show in one room and finish watching in another, or to split conflicting season passes across the two and be able to watch either show on either S2.

    I just wish that the formula could have simply been:

    S3 = S2 + HD

    rather than

    S3 = S2 - MRV - TTG - PPV - VOD + HD
     
  15. classicX

    classicX Don't scream.

    4,897
    1
    May 10, 2006
    Miles away...
    Some of us have more than one HDTV. :)

    And I don't want to spend $1600 on two S3 to have to run up and down the stairs to schedule the same Season Passes on both units - I do that now with my cable boxes.
     
  16. Dssturbo1

    Dssturbo1 New Member

    1,871
    0
    Feb 22, 2005
    "Series3, CableLabs, and Sharing Shows

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Glad you're all excited about the S3. It's a great product...you're going to love it.

    I have read some confusion (and some really outstandingly silly thread titles) this morning about Multi-Room Viewing and TiVoToGo. Let me offer some perspective. Then you can decide whether your glass is 'half empty' or 'half full'.

    MRV and TTG are available on our Series2 products today because they're cool features, we all want them, and they make life just a little bit better. And...because TiVo spent long hours to get the related industries - content providers, content owners, the FCC - to accept our methods and practices. In the end, the FCC approved our implementation, and you know the rest of the Series2 story.

    MRV and TTG on the Series3 product is just as cool, and we want them just as much, and they definitely make life a little better. But...in this case it's not the FCC that decides, it's CableLabs. And while we continue to work with CableLabs, and are optimistic they'll allow us to support these features, they haven't for this initial software release. It's not that we failed to meet a spec, or failed to talk to the right people, or missed a date - rather, we are trying to provide functionality that is unique in the industry, and CableLabs has not been able to give us their blessing yet. This sort of functionality is not supported by any CableCard product today.

    We're working on it. We know it's popular. But without CableLab's blessing, cable companies wouldn't give you a CableCard for your Series3. So...we could sell you a pretty box, but it wouldn't record your shows. Getting a dual tuner, high def box out now, and continuing to push forward for CableLabs certification of MRV and TTG is the choice we've had to make today.

    If you think we shouldn't have shipped until this is resolved...boy, I can just imagine the thread titles for that topic!

    If MRV & TTG today are a must-have for you on Series3, and you want to wait...wait. It's ok. But you'll be missing out on the absolutely best dual tuner HD DVR on the planet.

    This thing rocks.

    Pony

    __________________
    TiVo Product Marketing "


    sorry if i got it wrong. but it reads as if it has already been evaluated and turned down so far.
     
  17. msu2k

    msu2k New Member

    133
    0
    Jan 4, 2001
    Holt, MI
    If you own two HDTV's and two S3's can't you just pay your hired help to run up and down the stairs for you? ;)
     
  18. Dssturbo1

    Dssturbo1 New Member

    1,871
    0
    Feb 22, 2005
    there has been a working hd tivo for over 2 years with direct and ota. if anything almost everyone would say it wasn't rushed but overly delayed.
     
  19. tunnelengineer

    tunnelengineer New Member

    325
    0
    Jul 21, 2006
    I personally don't care if MRV isn't enabled. It sounds like it's out of TiVo's contorl as well.
     
  20. Stormspace

    Stormspace Electrocuted by TiVo

    5,198
    6
    Apr 13, 2004
    Hartsville, SC
    It's unfortunate for TiVo but I agree with this. When I bought my first TiVo we really enjoyed the ability to time shift shows so much easier than with the VCR. Our VCR had many of the same features as TiVo lacking guide data of course, but it was a very nice one. It still couldn't measure up to the 40 hour S2. After a few weeks we got a message about the HMO options and it's pricing, but lacking a second TiVo for MRV we really didn't see the benefit. About a month later TiVo started offering a special preview of HMO for free and by the end of the summer it was an included feature in the monthly sub. That christmas we purchased an 80 hour unit specifically because we knew that the MRV feature would allow us to share programming within the house. In my case the HMO options created a sale of an additonal unit.

    We've since upgraded both our units as you can see in the sig and were considering an S3. We purchased a plasma set in April and held off on getting the cable DVR because of the pending release of the S3. I knew it would be pricey, hoping for around 500.00 or less if I could get it. Also by all accounts it was going to be compatible with the S2 with regard to MRV, TTG, and TTCB. So, it was a shock to discover that these last features were missing, though the missing e-Sata didn't concern me as much. My reaction was one of severe disappointment unlike some who expressed anger, but the fact was that TiVo is MRV, TTG, and TTCB. Those are it's defining features, not recording television whether SD or HD. These are what people ooo and ahh about when I tell them about TiVo, because their cable DVR records television.

    One other thing TiVo should note. I live in a fairly affluent area and have many associates (not necessarily friends) that can afford the S3. These people would drop 4000 on a laptop for a child in highschool, but baulk at even the S2. Why? Well, it's because TV isn't important to them. Granted my evidence seems anecdotal, but it does beg the question. If those people that can afford an S3 won't buy it because TV isn't important to them, why did TiVo market it to that group?

    My only conclusion is that they anticipated that it wasn't going to sell very well except to a small percentage of existing users too fanitically loyal to wait for better options and pricing. They wanted to get even a small number of units in circulation to generate buzz for their software products in cable DVRs. TiVo also intentionally removed features that might cause controversy and impact the bottom line with law suits and other legal complications.

    The anticipated Kidzone update will not have MRV in it, neither will it have e-Sata, TTG, or TTCB. If the update was to include any of these items that would be at the forefront of TiVo's marketing campaign. After October the only distinguishing S3 feature of TiVo will be KidZone.

    Enough of the whining you say. :) Well for those of you that bought one I'm certainly seeing enough B and Ming about shipping, cablecard, and other issues so leave us whiners alone. ;)
     

Share This Page

spam firewall

Advertisements