MocA Networking

Discussion in 'TiVo Bolt DVR/Streamer' started by Morganstern, Mar 20, 2018.

  1. Morganstern

    Morganstern New Member

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    My apologies if this has been discussed here before but I didn’t see any topics that matched my case.

    I have ordered a Bolt+ 3TB and a Mini. My cable provider is Spectrum / TWC. They have sent me a tuning adapter and Cisco cable card for when the Bolt arrives.

    My network topology is Spectrum —> POE Filter —-> 1Ghz Amplifier—> 2Port 1Ghz Splitter —> 2x 8port splitters —- - separate rooms

    Will MocA work with this configuration? I have read differing reports. My signal strength is strong even in one case where there is a 2port 1ghz splitter between by Spectrum DVR (soon to be TiVo) and the Ubee modem. The DVR reads +20db.

    Are 1Ghz splitters okay? I’m only planning to use 1 mini and 1 bolt for the foreseeable future.
     
  2. m.s

    m.s Active Member

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    It will often work with 1 GHz splitters, although MoCA ones are better. You can move the POE filter to the input of the 2 port splitter to pick up a little more signal. Or, if all your MoCA TiVos will (or can) be connected to one of the 8 ports, move the POE to the input of that one.
     
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  3. fyodor

    fyodor Active Member

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    Do you actually have sixteen rooms? I read that MoCA with splitters that have very large numbers of outputs. If you run into problems, replacing those with smaller splitters might be a good starting point.
     
  4. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    What m.s said.

    But also...
    Note that you will not be able to connect the BOLT via the tuning adapter's RF pass-through port if the BOLT will have MoCA enabled, as the TA's pass-through port severely attenuates MoCA signals. You'll need to split the signal so that each device connects directly to the coax, and you may also need a MoCA filter installed on the TA's coax input if you find the TA becomes unstable when MoCA becomes active. (see this post for more info)
     
  5. waynomo

    waynomo My One Time

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    Seven...

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    That was my question. If you don't need the 16 ports I would highly recommend buying splitters with the proper number of ports. This was discussed elsewhere on these forums, but having empty ports is not ideal and splitters are pretty inexpensive in the scheme of things.
     
  6. Morganstern

    Morganstern New Member

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    Mar 20, 2018
    I found a coaxial tap going to an unknown destination before the amplifier and have decided to remove it and insert the POE as a coupler. I have 16 rooms with coaxial connections but it is not necessary for them to all have service. I will look into eventually moving to a single eight port splitter but will stick to the existing setup for the moment. The original installer did not label anything. Tracking down each connection is not something I want to do right away. The singnal strength is strong in most rooms even when coming off a 2 way splitter (in room). (20+dB)

    I did decided to replace the splitters with Moca Rated units by Holland.
    Catv, Moca, Splitter, Passive, Whole-home, Dvr, Set Top Box Holland Electronics, LLC | Online Catalog | RF Products | CATV | Satellite | Wireless | OEM

    I added a 3 way splitter and an extra POE filter to my order this morning for the tuning adapter, modem, and bolt+. Hopefully, the signal strength will be good enough. What is the range of signal strength requirements for a bolt+?
     
  7. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    The location "before the amplifier" is unclear, to me.

    I just stumbled across this older diagram ...
    upload_2018-3-21_9-35-43.png
    ... and figure it provides a good example of what @m.s was trying to communicate re: location of the "PoE" MoCA filter...
    ...getting it (1) installed downstream of the amp, and (2) installed on the input of a splitter rather than in-line, to provide the maximum reflective performance benefit. See also this post focusing on the performance benefit of the "PoE" MoCA filter.

    And, also as suggested by @m.s, if you can identify the coax runs to the modem/BOLT/TA and Mini locations and get them connected to the same splitter, you could just install the "PoE" MoCA filter on this splitter's input, minimizing the scope of the MoCA network and further improving its performance/efficiency.

    Though at the cost of access to the Internet for a brief period, your cable modem and router, and a smartphone, can be used to help identify the two critical coax runs. Install the modem & router in a target room, and then disconnect a coax line at the junction location and check if the Internet connection is lost. If not, reconnect the coax run and test the next. (Some have gone so far as to use two mobile devices and Facetime or Skype, in order to simply use their cable modem and the video session to monitor the status lights on the modem.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  8. Morganstern

    Morganstern New Member

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    Update: I have removed the tap, the two way splitter, and the two eight way splitters and replaced them with one four out MoCA rated amplifier and PoE filter (filter is installed before the amplifier on the main). I borrowed a toner and traced the lines back to each receiver and modem currently in use and isolated/connected the unused connections to a separate splitter that is not in use (organizational purposes). The original installler ran CaTV to every room (bathrooms, living rooms, entrance, bedrooms, etc). I only have TVs and or modems in four rooms.

    I read the post regarding the tuner adapter and will install that tomorrow with the filter. The adapter is already activated which should make the process a bit quicker. The modem shouldn’t need a PoE filter as it is MocA capable. I believe it will compensate.

    I made a call to Spectrum and got a read out of my signal levels, most devices read and slightly fluctuate between -1 to +4.

    Thanks for the advice. I will post an update tomorrow if any issues arise.
     
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  9. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    What's the brand & model # for the amp?
     
  10. Morganstern

    Morganstern New Member

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  11. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    This was one thing I was looking for...

    "By offering a number of distinct features including MoCA 2.0 optimized and a built-in Point of Entry (POE) filter, the M Entry Series ...
    • MoCA ready (1125-1675 MHz)
    • Low output-to-output isolation in MoCA band
    • Built-in POE filter on Input port
    • All passive Voice Modem/eMTA port"
    So a separate "PoE" MoCA filter should not be needed on the amp's input port:
     
  12. Morganstern

    Morganstern New Member

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    Mar 20, 2018
    Both the Bolt+ and Mini are up and running. Installation went smoothly and I am now reviewing the signal strength on the Mini.

    Under Network Settings
    TX PHY Rate: 655000000
    RX PHY Rate: 645000000
    TX Power: -11dBm
    RX Power: -51.05
    Total Packets Recieved: 379099
    Errors: 0

    Bolt+:
    Signal Strength: 97%

    Are these numbers good? I wasn’t expecting the trailing zeros on the PHY rate or the -51 RX power.
     
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  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Looks good to me.

    TiVo developers got lazy on the PHY rate; just divide by 1,000,000 (move the decimal left 6 digits) to get Mbps: 655 & 645 in your case. I haven't researched RX power estimate values/range, but the TX value indicates the MoCA gear is able to maintain the target PHY rate at a reduced power level, a good thing.


    BOLT+ signal strength looks good, especially since TiVo Support apparently doesn't like 100%.
     

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