MoCa network, Mini, Bolt OTH

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by clavenY56, Oct 3, 2020.

  1. Oct 3, 2020 #1 of 25
    clavenY56

    clavenY56 New Member

    18
    5
    Sep 23, 2020

    Advertisements

    I'm confused as to what is needed to create the MoCa network. I have a antenna coming in from the basement. I have a Tivo Mini in the basement, a Tivo Bolt upstairs. I have a 70 dB POE. I have a charter modem with coax coming in from the wall to it (NO cable TV, only OTH). I have a TP link Deco M9 plus mesh router. Available Ethernet connections to both tivo's via a network switch.

    Do I split the antenna coming in with one going to the tivo mini and one to the Tivo Bolt, then connect both tivo's to the ethernet? (then change the network in the tivo's to MoCa?) Do I need a bridge? Do I need to connect the coax to the modem?

    I see tons of diagrams but haven't seen this one yet?

    D
     
  2. Oct 3, 2020 #2 of 25
    kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

    3,041
    631
    Jun 19, 2007
    Houston, Texas
    The TiVo Mini has no need for an Antenna Signal. It uses the Tuners in the TiVo itself.

    If you need to share a coax run with a Cable Modem, a 'Diplexor' is often used. It splits the High Frequencies of the MoCA System from the Lower Frequencies of the Antenna and DOCISIS Systems from each other.

    Search for that and see if you can't find what works for you.

    -KP
     
  3. Oct 3, 2020 #3 of 25
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    16,026
    2,988
    Nov 25, 2003
    You won't have seen a diagram that fits your setup since few people would set up a MoCA network where Ethernet is already available. But there are valid reasons for doing so, beyond just experimental.

    A typical MoCA setup for your situation would have the BOLT connected via both coax and Ethernet, acting as a MoCA/Ethernet bridge, with the Mini connected only to coax (networked over the coax to the BOLT using MoCA). Figuring out specifically what you need to setup MoCA should be a snap, with a bit of back-and-forth to iron-out device locations and available coax runs.

    What specific model is your BOLT DVR? All BOLTs *except* the OTA-only model, the "BOLT OTA," have built-in MoCA bridging and so can either create or connect to a MoCA network; the BOLT OTA has no MoCA functionality, zip. (All Minis have the ability to connect to a MoCA network as clients.)

    So based on what you've described:
    • You have cable Internet, with a coax run to a cable modem ... and an Ethernet connection direct to a Deco M9, acting as your main router, with additional Ethernet LAN connections to the M9's LAN via an attached network switch (currently a TrendNet TEG-S50G).
    • You have an antenna signal routed to your BOLT, via a coax line running through the basement.
    • You already have Ethernet connections from the network switch to both the BOLT and Mini, but are still interested in establishing a MoCA connection for the TiVo boxes.
    • The Mini does have a coax outlet available.

    • You have a "PoE" MoCA filter on-hand.

    Some questions to clarify...
    • Do the coax lines to the cable modem and Mini locations emanate from a common central location (e.g. a junction box or just some plywood nailed to a basement wall)?
    • What component(s) are used at this central junction to interconnect the coax lines? (brand/model numbers or a pic of the equipment would be useful)
    • Does the antenna's coax line pass through the same central junction on its way to the BOLT, allowing an alternate connection setup, if required?

    • Where is the "PoE" MoCA filter installed, specifically?
     
  4. Oct 3, 2020 #4 of 25
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    16,026
    2,988
    Nov 25, 2003
    (Some background, while waiting for answers to the above questions.)

    MoCA is typically trivial to set up, but a hybrid configuration with both cable Internet and OTA adds a hurdle owing to the overlapping frequencies of cable and OTA signals:

    OTA: 54-698 MHz
    cable (TV/Internet): 5-1002 MHz
    MoCA (D band): 1125-1675 MHz
    MoCA can coexist with either, but OTA and cable can't flow over the same coax line.

    The solution is either keeping the associated coax plants for OTA and cable entirely separated (as you suggested in simply using a splitter to connect the Mini coax line to the antenna and BOLT coax runs), limiting the scope of the MoCA network, or employing the diplexer workaround (suggested above and described a bit more below) to allow the MoCA network to flow between the isolated "cable" and "OTA" segments of a coax plant.
     
  5. Oct 3, 2020 #5 of 25
    ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

    12,306
    1,069
    Apr 6, 2000
    SF Bay Area

    Advertisements

    Just use this since its available. In general, MoCa is used where ethernet is not available.
     
  6. Oct 3, 2020 #6 of 25
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    16,026
    2,988
    Nov 25, 2003
    See their parallel thread, here: Mini can't connect to Main Tivo
     
  7. Oct 3, 2020 #7 of 25
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    16,026
    2,988
    Nov 25, 2003
    Just a couple possible examples for how your setup could be connected at the central junction to support MoCA, using either a splitter or antenna/satellite diplexer, assuming the BOLT has Ethernet connectivity and would be configured as the MoCA/Ethernet bridge...

    w splitter.jpg w diplexer.jpg

    ... but dependent on responses to the questions in prior posts.

    The diplexer approach would have slightly less loss between the antenna and DVR, even less if you relied strictly on the diplexer's stop-band to block MoCA signals from reaching and exiting the antenna. (Maybe something like -1.5dB vs -4.3 dB.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2020
  8. Oct 3, 2020 #8 of 25
    mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

    3,650
    1,358
    Aug 13, 2015
    I have a dumb question. What does OTH mean?
     
  9. Oct 3, 2020 #9 of 25
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    16,026
    2,988
    Nov 25, 2003
    On The House antenna? :D


    (or erroneous voice-to-text)
     
    JoeKustra likes this.
  10. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

    12,306
    1,069
    Apr 6, 2000
    SF Bay Area
    DIIK.
     
  11. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    16,026
    2,988
    Nov 25, 2003
    What I hope it *doesn't* mean, per the thread subject, is that the OP has a "BOLT OTA" OTA-only model, which would mean the DVR has no built-in MoCA.

     
  12. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

    3,650
    1,358
    Aug 13, 2015
    Figured it wasn’t a mistake since it’s in the subject and in the post. Otherwise I’d have assumed OTA. Not trying to be a smart ass. Just thought it was a new acronym I hadn’t heard before.
     
    krkaufman likes this.
  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    16,026
    2,988
    Nov 25, 2003
    Yeah, with new acronyms continually spinning-up (OTA, OTT, etc), it’s most understandable.
     
  14. clavenY56

    clavenY56 New Member

    18
    5
    Sep 23, 2020
    Yes, it's a Tivo Bolt over the air..... since I don't have cable TV or satellite etc.... cut the cord years ago.... :) I goofed on the OTH it should have been OTA.
    The BOLT Vox is Model: TCD849000V
    The HD antenna signal comes into the house to a splitter. 5-1000MHz Two way splitter PC board construction.

    I also have available another splitter that DirecTV used in the past. 2-2150MHz splitter SWM 8 way MSPLIT8R1-03

    D
     
  15. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

    12,306
    1,069
    Apr 6, 2000
    SF Bay Area
    I assume the V at the end means VOX and therefore cannot be reverted to TE3.
     
  16. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    16,026
    2,988
    Nov 25, 2003
    Ok, so based on the model number, you have a BOLT VOX 1TB, which can work with digital cable *or* OTA — which means the box has built-in MoCA bridging.


    This old DirecTV splitter shouldn’t be used, as it is optimized for DirecTV and so can be problematic for MoCA setups.

    Interesting. Do you know where the coax lines attached to this splitter’s output go? (One must go to the BOLT, right?)
     
  17. clavenY56

    clavenY56 New Member

    18
    5
    Sep 23, 2020
    Yes, one goes directly to the TIVO bolt and the other in not connected right now to anything. I can use that one to go directly to the MINI.

    d
     
  18. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    16,026
    2,988
    Nov 25, 2003
    It’s a “VOX” model, but that really just means it comes with a different remote; VOX BOLTs have no physical difference to pre-VOX models — aside from the earliest BOLTs, and then the only difference was the case color (white vs black).

    Also, I believe that only the EDGE series and the BOLT OTA model are restricted from rollback to TE3, though TE3 vs TE4 shouldn’t be a factor in setting up a MoCA network.
     
  19. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    16,026
    2,988
    Nov 25, 2003
    That certainly simplifies things!!

    Just get a “PoE” MoCA filter installed on the *input* of that splitter (to keep MoCA signals from heading to the antenna), and then connect the Mini’s coax run to its other output, and you should be ready to fire-up your MoCA network.

    The result should be similar to the earlier “w splitter” diagram.

    56914233-0EC0-4792-806C-00DD138EB0FF.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2020
  20. clavenY56

    clavenY56 New Member

    18
    5
    Sep 23, 2020
    Where would I put the POE filter? On the cable internet line (ISP) before it reaches the modem? Do I even need this since that is not technically connected to either TIVO?

    D
     

Share This Page

spam firewall

Advertisements