MOCA network for Bolt not working

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by Chris B., Dec 10, 2018.

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  1. Chris B.

    Chris B. New Member

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    Dec 9, 2018
    Hi,

    I have a setup where my Bolt is in a room that is somewhat far from both the router and a Tivo mini. We set up a MOCA network with the Bolt so the mini would work in a different room. Everything worked fine until we had a cable outage and Comcast repaired the neighborhood amplifier. Since then, our MOCA network has been down.

    I have talked to both Tivo and Comcast support and neither seems able to resolve it so far. The problem, as best I can tell, is that the Bolt is being blocked from using the TCP ports that it needs. Currently, it will acquire an IP address for a few seconds and then lose it, acquire, lose, repeatedly. When it does have an IP, the TCP port and DNS tests are successful. But, then it loses the connection and tells me ports 37, 80, 7288, 7287, 8080, 8081, and 5223 need to be opened on the router. However, that only made it worse, assuming I did it correctly.

    The Tivo tech I talked to said he has seen this before after an outage and that the cable provider needs to open up the ports on their end. After talking to Comcast for a while, the guy told me they don't normally do this, but he would do something on his end to open up each port. It took some time. I was also told that I may need to open up the ports on the router using the Port Forwarding function. Whatever the tech did didn't help and my adding ports to be opened just made it so the Tivo never saw the router and couldn't acquire an IP.

    This problem is so aggravating. I don't know enough to say what is happening, but it's almost like the Tivo is getting blocked by some software somehow and yet nothing new has occurred that I know of except the cable outage, which has since been restored.

    Any help on this matter is greatly appreciated.

    - Chris
     
  2. Nortnarg

    Nortnarg New Member

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    Have you tried a port checker tool to confirm the needed ports are open?
    You can search your internet browser for “open port tool” and get sites that will let you test the ports.
     
  3. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

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    Those 'check that your ports are open' messages are usually red herrings.

    What devices are you using to create your MoCA Network?

    Are you using the Comcast Modem as the MoCA Bridge?

    How is you coax laid out?

    Do you know how to login to your Router?
    (hint: 10.0.0.1 admin password)

    Can you move your TiVo close(r) to the router temporarily to verify operation?

    -KP
     
  4. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I have many of KP’s questions, plus ... Can you verify that you still have a “PoE” MoCA filter properly installed?
     
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  5. Chris B.

    Chris B. New Member

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    Dec 9, 2018
    Hi guys,

    Thanks for responding. Sorry I am so late to respond myself. My daughter had her 18th birthday yesterday so I have been busy. :)

    First to the port checker question. I used this site to check my ports: Open Port Check Tool - Test Port Forwarding on Your Router

    But, it told me all the ports were closed, although one time it said port 80 was open. However, it soon closed for some reason. This even after I used the port forward function to open all those ports. I am not certain I did it right, though. I am attaching a picture that shows the Port Forwarding page for my router afterward.

    Here is the setup so far as I know. In one room, upstairs, the cable connection enters the house and goes to the Comcast router. Downstairs, my Tivo Bolt is hooked into the coax only. In another room, I have a Tivo mini also attached via coax. The whole reason for the Moca setup is so that we can use the mini. I do not have a Tivo bridge so the router is taking that function.

    All of this worked fine for many months and only just now won't work after Comcast came out to fix the amplifier for our neighborhood. I did check the PoE filter and it looks to me like it is fine. It is outside at the box where the cable comes in off the street.

    If the port checker site is right and my ports are closed am I doing something wrong when I try to port forward? The odd thing is I never needed to do this before. It just worked.
     

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  6. Chris B.

    Chris B. New Member

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    Dec 9, 2018
    I just checked the router and saw that the bridge function is disabled. I have a vague memory of that being the correct setting, though. Is it?
     
  7. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    With a "PoE" MoCA filter properly installed, any changes outside your house should not have an effect on your MoCA network. The only outside influence I can think of is Comcast; Comcast has been known to disable MoCA on their gateways unless the gateways have been "whitelisted."

    What bridge function are you talking about? Per the screenshot you posted, MoCA appears to be enabled on the router:
    Ports - Copy.jpg
    If the MoCA function is not remaining enabled on the gateway, you'll probably want to contact Comcast to have them whitelist the gateway relative to the MoCA bridging function. For example:

    If/when you have MoCA enabled on the gateway, a simple test would be to bring the Mini to the gateway location and use a 2-way splitter to connect both the gateway and Mini to the coax, then see if the Mini can successfully connect to the gateway as a MoCA client.
     
  8. Chris B.

    Chris B. New Member

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    Dec 9, 2018
    Here is what I mean about the bridge being disabled (see pic). It doesn't seem to have an effect on the Moca function being enabled.

    I don't think I am following your test, though. If the Mini is hooked up to the splitter along with the gateway, are you saying that is basically local as far as the gateway is concerned and so is different from being elsewhere in the house, that maybe the coax setup is problematic? If the Mini worked, then you are saying the problem lies with the Bolt? Sorry, this is confusing to me.

    I may need to ask about the whitelisting, although everything had been working fine until this recent cable outage.
     

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  9. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Interesting, I’d assumed that that setting would need to be enabled for the MoCA status to flag as good (green check mark).

    Given your setup...
    ... the gateway is your MoCA bridge, so needs to be enabled. “Whitelisting” with Comcast is needed because many have found that Comcast, otherwise, automatically disabled the MoCA bridge setting in the gateway. (I don’t personally have experience with it, which is why I referenced/linked the posts from @PSU_Sudzi, who has.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
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  10. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

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    I've never liked the appearance of the toggles on the Comcast modems. Off appears on and on appears to be off. That one is on.

    Plus, I think there's a tiny light on the case that indicates its status.

    -KP
     
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  11. Chris B.

    Chris B. New Member

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    Dec 9, 2018
    Just wanted to post an update.

    The problem is resolved in that another method was found that works. The Comcast tech that came out and who is their Tivo expert said he didn't think the Bolt could access the internet through the Moca and instead needed to attach via wireless connection. That didn't really make sense to me since it had been working fine until recently. Further, when you enable Moca on the Bolt, it automatically disables the wireless and vice-versa.

    But, it worked. The wireless is enabled on the Bolt and connects using my 5.0Ghz network and the Tivo mini is set up using Moca. So, at this point it looks like the mini is using a Moca connection to the Bolt and the Bolt uses a wireless connection to attach to the router. I don't love that because I would think wireless would be less reliable, but don't see a way around it right now.

    For his part, the Comcast tech said they wouldn't let Tivo access anything online using Moca anyway, as if that was just the way it always has been. I don't think he full understood the situation, but his fix worked so I am going with it for now. Btw, Moca is enabled on the Comcast router.

    Thanks to everyone who tried to help.

    - Chris
     
  12. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    First, thanks for the update. It’s always preferable to get closure on an issue. Even in cases like this.

    He was wrong.*

    Right, except the Mini is connecting via MoCA to the Comcast gateway, now, then via the BOLT’s wireless link, rather than having a peer-to-peer wired MoCA connection to the BOLT.

    That’s the concern with both wireless and Powerline workarounds. Your call whether to solve the MoCA issue or stick with the wireless workaround; it may work fine for streaming to just a single Mini, but keep the option in mind should you have performance issues.

    * It seems like the tech may have been getting confused with how MoCA works with a Comcast X1 DVR and a BOLT. Connected via MoCA, the BOLT is just another device on your home network, over which Comcast has no say (aside from techs providing poor troubleshooting).
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
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  13. PSU_Sudzi

    PSU_Sudzi Well-Known Member

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    Just wanted to add in I'm not sure if Comcast still flashes the modems to disable MoCA or not, from reading some other posts on here over the past year they may not. I currently have MoCA turned on in my XB3 settings and Bridge Mode is disabled. TiVo and Mini work fine this way.
     
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  14. Chris B.

    Chris B. New Member

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    Dec 9, 2018
    I was told they don't need to whitelist anymore since the modems are newer. In any case, this was different because it happened every few seconds and wasn't so much the Moca being disabled (as far as I know) as it was the Bolt being blocked or at least it thinking it is blocked.

    We will see how performance is affected. If it is in a significant way, I will have to try again to get this issue resolved. At least I know more now.

    One question I have, though, pertains to the comment made by krkaufman regarding the Bolt being just another device on the network. That makes sense to me on its face, but then I am left to wonder how it is that only the Bolt was having trouble. If it is effectively the same as a computer or cell phone on the network, how could it appear to be singled out like this such that it thinks no ports are open and so unable to access the router? I am still puzzled as to why that problem was occurring every few seconds and then appearing to resolve, over and over again.
     
  15. okay_see

    okay_see New Member

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    Nov 12, 2018
    Something for the future to test your MoCa...try disabling MoCa on the comcast router and using your BOLT as the MoCa bridge. Not sure if someone suggested that already. I'm also fidgety about relying on wireless, BUT wireless performance is improving a lot these days and if your BOLT connects strongly enough it should be okay.
     
  16. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    The first sentence from the second reply to the thread is probably the best advice Re: the supposed port issues:
    There’s a network issue but don’t get too focused thinking it’s just a port.

    The BOLT should be able to connect as a MoCA client, so one way to determine if there’s an issue with the BOLT’s MoCA hw/sw or if it’s a location issue would be to move the BOLT, temporarily, to another coax outlet, ideally in place of another currently functioning MoCA client. Another test is to use a 2-way splitter at the gateway location to connect the BOLT as close as possible to the MoCA bridge. If the BOLT can connect as a MoCA client in both of these locations, then the assumption is that something’s amiss with the coax run to the current BOLT location.

    Oh, also, it should be a simple matter to try connecting the Mini as a MoCA client at the current BOLT location.
     
  17. Chris B.

    Chris B. New Member

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    Dec 9, 2018
    I am not sure I understand how to test this. Am I making the Bolt perform as a MoCa bridge when I enable MoCa on the Bolt in the Network Settings (as opposed to using Ethernet or Wireless)? This would mean no internet access right now. But, are you thinking that doesn't matter because you just want to see if the mini communicates via MoCa with the Bolt?
     
  18. Chris B.

    Chris B. New Member

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    Dec 9, 2018
    I will have to test the splitter scenario soon, but don't think I have one now. I will update you if anything meaningful occurs. Thanks to everyone for all of their help!
     
  19. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Missing from this suggestion is that the BOLT would need Ethernet connectivity to the gateway, directly or via network switches, in order to be setup as the MoCA bridge.
     
  20. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Absent the additional splitter, you could just swap the BOLT and Mini locations.
     

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