MoCA interference?

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by sepstein, Dec 21, 2018.

  1. sepstein

    sepstein Tivolutionary

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    Sep 26, 2002
    Boston, MA

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    It's been a while since I've been here - good to know lots of people still have MoCA issues.

    Here's mine:
    For the coax cable: Verizon FiOS box -> Filter -> TiVo Premier XL4.
    For the internet: Verizon FiOS box -> Ethernet port -> Linksys Velop router -> "wireless here" -> Apple Airport Extreme -> Netgear 5 port switch -> the TiVo (so the TiVo *thinks* it's hard connected via the ethernet port).

    My FiOS is a little unique - I do not have any of their equipment inside my house (no Verizon-branded router, etc) - I just have an Ethernet port for router and a cable drop for my TiVo. So there shouldn't be any issues with 2 competing networks, etc.

    Near my TiVo is a lot of other AV equipment - Sonos connect, Apple TV, an AV receiver, Blu-ray player, and plasma TV. I'm able to turn off all the equipment save the Apple TV (used for Homekit) and the TiVo in order to save energy.

    The TiVo is creating the MoCA network, and I have 2 TiVo Minis. One, located on the same floor, works just fine, with around 99% uptime. The other, located in my basement, seems to work only when it is booted while most of the AV equipment is off. If I try to start the Mini while the other equipment is on, then I get an error that the TiVo is not connected to the internet, and the IP address is a 169. address (self-assigned).

    I've tried replacing the coax cable with the shortest one I can find to cut down on any interference, but that hasn't done the trick. Now I'm looking for suggestions.

    Thanks!

    Steve
     
  2. HomeUser

    HomeUser Active Member

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    Jan 12, 2003
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    Maxed out of IP address?
    The TiVo acts as a bridge between the Ethernet and MoCA it does not assign Address the Mini gets the IP from your router.
     
  3. sepstein

    sepstein Tivolutionary

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    Sep 26, 2002
    Boston, MA
    I have 40 devices in the router table - while that's a lot, there's still plenty of room. Do you think it would help if I reserved an IP address for the TiVo Mini?
     
  4. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

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    Houston, Texas
    How many MoCA Nodes are reported by the various MoCA Enabled devices? By my count each device ought to report 3.

    What are their signal levels? That information can be discovered in Settings>Network>Diagnostics. Or the like...

    What happens if you temporarily swap the Mini's locations?

    What happens if you temporarily re-locate the 'bad' Mini nearby the TiVo?

    -KP
     
  5. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

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    Houston, Texas

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    You probably ought to go ahead and try to manually assign an IP Address to it, to see what happens.

    -KP
     
  6. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Nov 25, 2003
    Your description of the coax connectivity provides no insight on how any Minis are connected.
     
  7. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    The "description" of your coax setup really is not very descriptive. Also is the Velop the only device handing out IP addresses? How about the Airport Extreme, is the DHCP disabled on that?
    If the problem is not due to you network connections/router(s) then you might just have a common MoCA issue due to a marginal coax connection. Are you using Verizon supplied splitters, i.e., the Verizon branded ones? Checked all the coax connections to make sure they are tight? And yes in an iffy situation like yours, one trouble shooting step would be to reserve IP address for all tivos in this case on the Velop router, rather than the device.
     
  8. sepstein

    sepstein Tivolutionary

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    Sep 26, 2002
    Boston, MA
    Please forgive me if I'm not giving a clear enough description - I'm new to MoCA.

    The Velop is the only device that should be handing out IP addresses. I was under the impression that the main TiVo (creating the MoCA network in the first place) would somehow assign addresses. If that's not the case, then the Velop is the only device on my network capable of doing that.

    Easy enough for me to reserve IP addresses for the TiVo Minis.

    As for the Mini connections, they are connected by coax wired through the house. There will obviously be some splitters involved since a single coax comes out of the Verizon box. I can try replacing the splitter closest to the basement TiVo mini and work back if you all think that's the most likely cause.
     
  9. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

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    I personally don't think you ought to just start randomly replacing parts.

    If you were able to determine the MoCA Levels (as described above) during both proper operation and then again during improper operation, that would go a long way.

    When the 'other' AV equipment is on, which of those devices also might be Network Connected?

    -KP
     
  10. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    The MoCA bridge's only function is to bridge between the two physical network media types, MoCA/coax and the Ethernet LAN. It plays no more part in IP assignments than a Cat6 cable.

    That's what @fcfc2 was saying, as well, but you've listed at least one other device, the Apple Airport Extreme, that is capable of acting as a DHCP server. I expect he was suggesting the Airport Extreme be reviewed to ensure that it's configured properly, with its "router" functions disabled.

    Not so obvious from the OP description, but certainly necessary. But what matters is how the locations are connected via coax, and through what components. Making a recommendation regarding any given splitter seems pointless absent complete information. (text description can suffice, diagrams are better; see attached for an example)

    .
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
  11. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    What’s the model number of the network switch?
     
  12. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Good question.
     
  13. sepstein

    sepstein Tivolutionary

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    Sep 26, 2002
    Boston, MA
    A couple of answers (and thanks to the community!)

    Network status says there are 3 nodes. The main TiVo is the Coordinating MAC.

    Each of the Minis has TX power as 0.00, and RX power as -41.00. Both happen to be up and running at present, so my basement Mini doesn't always fail when my main entertainment system is on ... on theory dashed.

    The network switch is Netgear GS605v2.

    Good point about the Apple Airport Extreme - I did make sure that wasn't handing out IP addresses in the past, and confirmed that it is in "Join a wireless network" mode.

    For a splitter diagram I'll need to trace the house - probably won't do that tonight (dark/raining outside and I'm heading out of town for the weekend), but will do so if the other information I've provided above doesn't lead to solutions. What I was able to trace easily is the the basement TiVo mini (the flaky one) is connected via a PDI Mega Splitter (2 way, 5-1000MHz, with the 2 outputs having a 3.5dB on each). The input to that splitter goes directly outside the house to near the Verizon FiOS box, but there may be some splitters there as well (and I have the MoCA filter there, too).

    Thanks again all!
     
  14. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I’m curious, why the wireless link to the XL4 location, rather than using MoCA (with a standalone MoCA adapter at the Velop router, and then using the XL4 or another MoCA adapter to make the client connection, depending on throughput/uptime requirements)??
     
  15. sepstein

    sepstein Tivolutionary

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    Sep 26, 2002
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    Velop router is in my office, about 30 feet away and a couple of rooms away from the great room where the TiVo and television are. There isn't a coax connection in the office.
     
  16. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    With a theoretical range of -30 to +3 dBm (best to least good*), you have room for improvement. A review of the coax connections and connecting components seems like a worthwhile venture, when you have time.

    * p.s. Just how ungood the +3 dBm value is can be determined by the associated TX PHY rate. Once you've hit the maximum amplification of the MoCA signal (+3 dBm), the PHY rate will suffer, with symptoms from dropping the effective throughput to failing to establish/maintain a connection.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
  17. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Ah, unfortunate. Silly FiOS.
     
  18. sepstein

    sepstein Tivolutionary

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    Sep 26, 2002
    Boston, MA
    OK, a lot of hunting wires, but I think I've found the connection points.

    From FiOS (alcatel ont i-211m-l), there is an ethernet drop and a cable drop. The ethernet goes directly to my office. The cable attaches to a filter, which is the input for a 4-way splitter - attenuation of -7.5dB each branch. One of those branches within my home is split again with a -3.5dB 2-way splitter that goes to the TiVo mini.

    I found that I really don't need the 4-way splitter - there are a number of drops in my home that are unused (including one relative near my router and main Ethernet switch, so that may mean there is another solution). I replaced the 4-way splitter with a 2-way splitter, and rechecked the TX/RX power of the minis. Now, the TX power is still 0.00, but the RX power is -39.00 (from -41.00). So far, I've been able to use the basement mini, so maybe that's all that's needed, but I'll need to do more testing to see if the connection there is still very flaky.

    Yet another solution would be to put the basement mini on Ethernet. I needed another Velop terminal to improve the signal in my basement (a few Homekit switches there that I wanted to improve the reliability of), and I can connect the mini directly by cable to the Velop (which is seeing about 600Mbps). That certainly works as well. Would that be a better solution than MoCA anyway?

    Steve
     
  19. donnoh

    donnoh Member

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    Mar 7, 2008
    I think your splitter is where the problem is. It needs to be rated higher than 1000MHz for MoCA to work reliably. Try something like this https://www.amazon.com/Holland-Electronics-GHS-2Pro-M-Splitter-5-1675Mhz/dp/B00P6VHLP0
     

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