MOCA help please

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by mocahelp, Sep 12, 2016.

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  1. mocahelp

    mocahelp New Member

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    Sep 12, 2016
    My MoCA setup was working fine for a long time but for the past month and half low signal issues. It works sometimes but usually have bad signal for my Premier 4 with MoCA.

    I have replaced all splitters with IDEAL 5mhz-2.4ghz which helped a great deal. Can anyone give me an idea for a MoCA amplifier?

    Even the Xfinity X1 are having issues...

    HELP

    Bob
     
  2. Fant

    Fant Member

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    Aug 31, 2016
    What is the moca signal level reported by the TiVo?
     
  3. HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

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    First thing to ask is, what device is creating your MoCA network? Is it the TiVo Premiere4 or something from Comcast like the modem/router/gateway? Have you checked to make sure only one device is creating the MoCA network and all the others are just connecting to it? Are these Comcast devices (X1, Gateway) new to your system and were any of them installed around the same time you started having issues?

    How are you seeing the Ideal Splitters have "helped a great deal"? Ideal is a pretty cheap store brand iirc.

    Have you tried changing the MoCA channel/frequency? When you say "MoCA amp", do you mean a cable tv amp that is MoCA compatible, or an actual amp for the MoCA signal to try to make it more powerful? The latter don't exist as far as I know or have ever heard.
     
  4. mocahelp

    mocahelp New Member

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    Sep 12, 2016
    MoCA network is created by Arris SBG6782-AC but I will have to double check the Premiere 4 is not also creating a MoCA. Going to say no because it all was working for almost a year without any problems.

    Problem started when I changed a cable connection and the COMCAST cablecard stopped working. Took many calls with COMCAST and Tivo to resolve this over two weeks and 6 different cablecards. COMCAST repair spent 3 hours changing all connects, splitters and added amp without resolution. COMCAST offered me the X1 devices free to replace the Tivo. Main X1 unit worked but the mini receiver would not connect.

    Finally got a Tivo support that shared that the standard cable splitters can be the problem and all should be over 1400 mhz. Changed all splitters (3) and everything works for a short time... Now the Premiere 4 will not connect via MoCA and usually no picture, other Premiere (dual tuner) with Acton MoCA has always had cable connection though now the MoCA only works sometimes.

    Recommendations for an amplifier that is MoCA capable. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
     
  5. fyodor

    fyodor Active Member

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    Am I correct that you did not have the X1/satellite devices before and now you do? These devices also use MoCA and I suspect that they are doing something that interferes with your Tivos' MoCA communication.

    Can you disconnect the X1 devices and see if your Premieres can communicate?
     
  6. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    It would be helpful if you shared exactly what you "changed", i.e., from what to what?
    Did you, or do you use any of Comcast's xfinity boxes?
    Do you know if Comcast installed a MoCA filter and if so where?
    Is the amp which Comcast installed still in place? What is it's make and model number?
    MoCA "compatible" amplifiers are often referred to as "MoCA Bypass" amplifiers. These amplifiers only amplify frequencies below 1 GHz where the internet and TV frequencies reside and basically "bypass" the higher MoCA frequencies altogether. In other words, they leave the higher MoCA frequencies alone, hopefully to pass freely back and forth between the various ports on the amp.
    A "standard" amp will actually block MoCA frequencies and if used. The standard multiport amps are pretty useless for MoCA applications, but if you have one with a single in and out port(assuming it is bi-directional) it can be used just before the first splitter to enter your home in a similar position to a MoCA POE filter, but a MoCA filter should still be used in conjunction with it, i.e., immediately after the amp.
    The proper splitters to use with MoCA systems is a confusing matter, as MoCA was designed and deployed to work with the existing equipment commonly in use, so, in that sense, all splitters are potentially "MoCA compatible or compliant" and their manufacturers help the confusion by adding meaningless terms like "MoCA, MoCA compatible, or MoCA compliant" in the product descriptions.
    My experience is that only products from Holland and Verizon, labeled with a "MoCA 2.0 5-1675MGz" rating give the best performance on MoCA systems. In theory, the claim is that these splitters have lower port isolation at the MoCA frequencies. For whatever reason, folks who stick with these brands or change to these brands seem to have the most positive results.
    Last thought, many on Comcast have had issues trying to use the MoCA on their gateways with non-xfinity sustems. Some report repeatedly having the MoCA settings on the gateway "disabled" every few days by a firmware hit.
     
  7. HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

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    If it were me, I would dump the Comcast gateway and get your own modem and router, then use the premiere 4 to create the moca network. If you need the gateway for phone then put it in bridge mode so it acts as a modem only. Try turning off the moca on the gateway and using the premiere 4's moca as a test and we will go from there.
     
  8. mocahelp

    mocahelp New Member

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    Sep 12, 2016
    All of my equipment is the same except also have Xfinity X1 box & mini.

    List before problems:

    Arris SBG6782-AC (mine not from COMCAST)
    Tivo Premiere 4 (with MoCA)
    Tivo Premiere with Actiontec MoCA adapter
    COMCAST cablecards
    old splitters original with apartment 5-1000mhz
    One outside splits to livingroom and closet for all other connections
    One in closet for five other rooms and one at media/computer work area with TV

    Again, all of this worked for a long time until I decided to change a cable from the wall to the livingroom box (during the Rio games no less)

    Two weeks working with COMCAST and Tivo, finally got a Tivo rep that told me about the splitter requirements. Bought the Ideal splitters at HomeDepot, changed them out and everything worked. Tivo's, MoCA and new Xfinity X1 devices.

    Since all of this has happened: Tivo in master bedroom has not had any problem but MoCA does not always work. X1 mini in media/computer room usually works. Tivo Premiere 4 very rarely has TV channels and only had MoCA a couple of times.

    I am going to try and disconnect the X1 devices and see what effect this will have with the Tivo and MoCA.

    I would like to ask if anyone can give me the best splitters to use with Tivo and MoCA as well as what amp/bypass will help the system. Links or item numbers would be a great deal of help.

    By the way, I am a computer professional earning my living with both software as well as hardware dealing with network infrastructure. I am also doing some design engineering for local power company. Cannot seem to find any clear resolutions for this and yes all COMCAST service people are mostly useless except to test signal strength. Thanks again if anyone has some equipment to recommend that I can research.
     
  9. thyname

    thyname Well-Known Member

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    Dec 26, 2010
    N. Virginia
    THIS is what I have and works great with my TiVos

    I also heard good things on Holland (brand name) 2.0 rated Moca splitters.

    No idea on amps
     
  10. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Step 1, IMO, if you're trying to stick w/ a strictly TiVo solution, is to power-down and disconnect all the Comcast/Xfinity X1 devices you were just given. They communicate over MoCA and may be affecting your TiVos' ability to connect via MoCA. If they aren't part of the long-term plan, remove them from the equation.

    Step 2, after all your new X1 devices have been removed, shut everything down... gateway, any/all TiVo devices, any/all MoCA adapters, any Ethernet switches, etc. After everything's been simultaneously powered-off for 5 minutes, bring them back online... but in order, and only moving to the next device(s) when the current device has stabilized and has been verified:
    1. amplifier (in case you powered it off, as well)
    2. SBG6782-AC gateway (combo modem & router) & verify MoCA LAN is enabled
    3. any/all Ethernet switches
    4. Premiere 4 (w/ built-in MoCA) & check MoCA stats
    5. Actiontec MoCA adapter
    6. 2-tuner Premiere & check network connectivity

    If the above reset doesn't provide any joy, then you'll want to proceed with a more general review of your setup*, IMO.

    ---

    * To that end, it would be helpful if you could provide us with a diagram of your setup, detailing how your various devices and rooms connect to each other via coax and Ethernet, starting from the Comcast point-of-entry, including connecting equipment (switches, splitters, routers, modems, amps, etc, ideally including brand & model # for each). See attached for a couple example diagrams, for inspiration, noting that accuracy is of greater value than beauty.

    You'll want to be triple-sure to check/verify that you have a "PoE" MoCA filter installed at your Comcast point-of-entry, to secure and strengthen your MoCA signals. And given the above info, the model info for your amp and how your runs connect to the amp would also be especially critical information. Depending on the model of the amp, it's possible that it includes a built-in PoE MoCA filter; however, given your MoCA performance, my money would be on "not."

    .
     

    Attached Files:

  11. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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  12. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Just brainstorming....

    One other possibility for why things went South might be if you live in an ^^^apartment^^^ and your coax lines are not properly isolated from your neighbors' lines -- and a neighbor recently fired-up their own MoCA network. I would hope that your Comcast technician would have properly isolated your network and sealed the deal by correctly installing a PoE MoCA filter on your dedicated splitter... but it's possible they erred.

    See the following thead for some fun experienced by another TCFer recently, owing to such a case:
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Oh, heh, good call.


    Find your preferred source, but some prefer Holland's MoCA splitters, rated for MoCA 1.1 (like these), while others recommend the Verizon-branded MoCA 2.0-rated splitters (like these).

    As for the amp, you may find it is unneeded, if you strip-down your coax to just the lines and connections needed. If you do need an amp, you could require a single port amp installed at your point-of-entry, as suggested by fcfc2, owing to your lines not all branching-out directly from your drop.
     
  14. HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

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    This was my thought too, and worth investigating! :up:
     

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