1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

MoCA compatible Coax amplifiers

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by pshivers, Nov 16, 2016.

  1. pshivers

    pshivers Retired!

    181
    12
    Nov 4, 2013
    Alhambra, CA
    If anyone is looking for a coax amplifier that works well with a MoCA network, I'm happy to report I have found a supplier with several options that work! This may be old news for many, but as near as I can tell, well made MoCA compatible coax amplifiers have been hard to find until fairly recently (and also be affordable!).

    The unit I've installed is the RF MoCA Bypass Amplifier Unity Gain CATV Amp, model PCT-VC-F19A from PCT.

    From their website:
    It has a built in POE filter for MoCA, 8 output RF amplifier + 1 modem output with unity gain.
    Bypass feature provides uninterrupted service at all times, Auto termination upon power outage.
    Lowest distortions performance available IEEE 6 kV, B3 surge withstand on all RF ports
    Beryllium copper patented DSM seizure technology Sealed F ports conform to SCTE standards.

    (All output ports communicate with MoCA)

    Bottom line is I've had several low signal problems with my two Roamios where channels would become very blocky or disappear altogether. outages were never consistent with the missing channels varying all the time. A large part of the problem was the way Charter daisy-chained a number of rooms together with several splitters involved. I removed and rewired around most of these where I could but still had a low signal problem to one room and a borderline signal to our main Living room Tivo Roamio. Short of installing new "Home Run" coax runs through out the house (Best Option, but time consuming and not so easy to do anymore for me), I decided to try an amplifier, with instant success! All channels are working on both Roamios, no blocking in the pictures anymore and the MoCA network is running without problem to my 3 Tivo Mini's and providing Internet access to one computer! I do have a leftover MoCA POE filter that I no longer need as the amp has that built in. Even the Cable Service box looks cleaner inside with all the coax running in the same direction instead of coming out opposite sides of the splitter it replaced...

    Best of all my Sister-In-Law can watch her programming in her room without complaint! YES!

    I'm sure there are other amplifiers that will do the trick with MoCA compatibility, but this is what I found that worked!!


    Unity Gain MoCA Bypass Amplifier: PCT-VC-F19A | PCT Store
     
    krkaufman likes this.
  2. Jan 4, 2017 #2 of 30
    x-telcom

    x-telcom New Member

    5
    1
    Jan 4, 2017
    I've been researching amplifiers and TiVo tech support says that you need one that has higher frequencies - 1675 MHz similar to the splitters they provide with their devices. The amplifier you mention is only 1 Ghz.
     
  3. Jan 4, 2017 #3 of 30
    pshivers

    pshivers Retired!

    181
    12
    Nov 4, 2013
    Alhambra, CA
    The PCT-VC-F19A Supports MoCA Frequency Range 1125 to 1525 MHz as well as Modem Path Frequency Range of 5 to 1002 MHz

    I have zero problems using this Amplifier on my Network.

    http://www.pctinternational.com/wp-...F19A_PCT-MoCA-Bypass-Amplifiers_20140221a.pdf
     
  4. Jan 4, 2017 #4 of 30
    x-telcom

    x-telcom New Member

    5
    1
    Jan 4, 2017
  5. Jan 4, 2017 #5 of 30
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TiVo shepherd

    7,337
    488
    Nov 25, 2003
    Similar in that they're both amplifiers, but the PCT model linked above was designed and manufactured with MoCA in mind, allowing MoCA devices to be connected to any of the outputs -- including the eMTA/modem port. That PPC amp installed by Comcast is more of the after-the-fact, "tested to work OK with MoCA if installed per recommendations" variety. Both can work, but the linked PCT amp *will* work and will provide better MoCA performance; and your PPC amp may work, but the MoCA devices may have to work a bit harder (i.e. use a bit more power) to establish and maintain connectivity.

    Amplifiers boost the signal within the specified frequency range, typically 5-1002 MHz; no amps are designed to boost the MoCA signal: it's either neglected or filtered/rerouted. What TiVo was trying to tell you was to find an amp designed to handle the MoCA frequencies.

    e.g.
    MoCA PCT-MAB-F14P_internals.jpg MoCA_bypass_amps_diagram.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  6. Jan 4, 2017 #6 of 30
    Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

    5,898
    106
    Oct 30, 2003
    Hartford-...
    Interesting, they can support MoCA from a phone/internet gateway device on the passive port as well.... The standard unity gain amps are basically just a two-way splitter, an ~11dB amp, and then a 4-way splitter baked into one box. Apparently Comcast is concerned with MoCA getting through the amp though, as they put a MoCA filter on the RF input of their zero loss splitter. They work fine with MoCA on the 4 amplified ports, as that's what they use for X1.
     
  7. Jan 5, 2017 #7 of 30
    x-telcom

    x-telcom New Member

    5
    1
    Jan 4, 2017
    I appreciate you all chiming in. I'm not that technical - but I'm trying!

    Just got off of the phone with TiVo tech support again. Asked for a specific brand & model of an amplifier for my network at the entry-point of the home. They don't have one.

    The tech said that the cable signal and the MOCA signals are separate. That the amplifier only amplifies the cable signal and not the MOCA signal. The MOCA compatible amplifiers allow the MOCA signal from your router/modem to pass through the amplifier and then throughout the coax in the home. That MOCA does not need to be amplified.

    So maybe it's a mute point as far as trying to find a 2 GHz amplifier that is similar to the 1675 GHz splitters recommended and provided by TiVo with their equipment?

    Thoughts?
     
  8. Jan 5, 2017 #8 of 30
    x-telcom

    x-telcom New Member

    5
    1
    Jan 4, 2017
    Per P-Shivers recommendation I looked into the PCT products and asked their Customer Service the following:

    " I have a MOCA network set up in my home for TiVo. Comcast installed a PPC EV01-5-U/U amplifier that it MOCA compatible. Another TiVo user on a chat forum said that your PCT-VC-F15U is a superior product for a MOCA amplifier. Could you compare the two and explain why your product is superior? I'd like to optimize my TV/Cable/TiVo viewing."

    PCT Customer Service responded:

    "The EVO amplifier (the PPC brand I have installed by Comcast) is not specifically designed for MoCA networks, but is “compatible” with them. Ours is specifically designed to improve MoCA performance, especially on the bypass port."

    So it may be worth the $75 or so to swap it and see if it improves things.

    Thoughts?

     
  9. Jan 5, 2017 #9 of 30
    BRiT wtfdotcom

    BRiT wtfdotcom Active Member

    437
    35
    Dec 16, 2015
  10. krkaufman

    krkaufman TiVo shepherd

    7,337
    488
    Nov 25, 2003
    You mean >like this< ?
     
  11. krkaufman

    krkaufman TiVo shepherd

    7,337
    488
    Nov 25, 2003
    The highlighted text above is vague enough to be considered incorrect. NO amps (that I am aware of) pass the MoCA signals from the amp's input port to any output ports unimpeded. The designed-for-MoCA amps I've seen pass MoCA signals between the output ports with the least possible loss. (See the simple circuit diagrams from the linked post above.)

    That said, MoCA signals may be able to pass through an amplifier between the input and output ports, but not without significant loss -- and often enough loss as to preclude MoCA connectivity.
     
  12. krkaufman

    krkaufman TiVo shepherd

    7,337
    488
    Nov 25, 2003
    I can't offer an opinion as there's no data indicating anything needs to be improved. Right?

    Are you having MoCA connectivity or performance issues, currently, with the Comcast-installed PPC amp?

    It would also be educational to understand what exactly you're connecting to your MoCA network, how all the coax interconnects and how your coax network is linked to your Ethernet network and the Internet. Words can usually get the job done, but diagrams are often much more productive... if you're so inclined. (see attached for example diagrams)

    e.g.
    MoCA_diagram_eg1.jpg MoCA OTA.png MoCA - simple cable setup.png
     
  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman TiVo shepherd

    7,337
    488
    Nov 25, 2003
    p.s. If you have any MoCA-connected TiVo devices, you should be able to check and document your MoCA statistics (TX/RX PHY rates and power estimates) via the network status screens; documenting your MoCA stats will aid in comparing different configurations for your connections and/or components.

    See >this post< for more info on checking MoCA stats.
     
  14. pshivers

    pshivers Retired!

    181
    12
    Nov 4, 2013
    Alhambra, CA
    I think what PCT was trying to point out is it has a builtin POE filter that reflects all MoCA signals back into you network, This improves you MoCA signal internally and prevents your MoCA signal from bleeding out onto the Cable Company external network and into you neighbor's (and visa-versa).

    Word of warning about ordering from Amazon for the PCT unit, it does not include the PCT-MPI-1G Power Inserter required to power the unit.. (Been there, Done that!)
     
    BRiT wtfdotcom likes this.
  15. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

    5,898
    106
    Oct 30, 2003
    Hartford-...
    The only reason you would need that MoCA-specific amp is if you are trying to connect your gateway to the rest of your MoCA network in order to get internet connectivity.
     
  16. krkaufman

    krkaufman TiVo shepherd

    7,337
    488
    Nov 25, 2003
    Or if, as is probably the most common situation, they had no Ethernet runs in the house, are needing to establish a MoCA network, and would need to install a MoCA adapter at the cable modem/gateway location in order to do so -- assuming the cable modem/gateway is on the unamplified output.
     
  17. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

    5,898
    106
    Oct 30, 2003
    Hartford-...
    Virtually no one uses MoCA for computer networking. It's pretty much for DVRs. People use wireless in most cases.
     
  18. x-telcom

    x-telcom New Member

    5
    1
    Jan 4, 2017
    I found the PCT -VC - F15CU with power supply on EBay for $22 and free shipping. So I'll try it out next week after it's delivered.
     
    krkaufman likes this.
  19. krkaufman

    krkaufman TiVo shepherd

    7,337
    488
    Nov 25, 2003
    That's an easily demonstrated falsehood. It also has nothing to do with my response or the topic at hand.
     
  20. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

    5,898
    106
    Oct 30, 2003
    Hartford-...
    You said it was a common situation. You are wrong.
     

Share This Page