Moca and the Tivo Bolt

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by randy1649, Nov 20, 2016.

  1. randy1649

    randy1649 Member

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    I have 2 Bolt's. I set the first Tivo Bolt up as "use the DVR to create a Moca network.
    And the second Bolt's set as "connect via Moca".
    I originally was using (before getting the Bolt's) Actiontec moca adaptors to allow hard wired internet to most all internet devices.
    Is there some network compatible issue with using both the Bolt moca and also using the Actiontec moca adaptor?
    How could I wire this up, or is it possible, to have both "Bolt" moca features enabled and also the Actiontec for hardwiring other devices?

    Hard to explain.
    What I tried was setting the first Bolt to create Moca, then in another room with a second Bolt I have the cable TV wire directly to the second Bolt, and that worked fine.
    However if I try to add the Actiontec into the mix it messes up the Bolt ability to use Moca.
    What I tried was changing the cable TV wire to the Actiontec "in", and the Actiontec "out" to the second Bolt.
    The Bolt doesn't like that. Will not connect via moca.

    With mixing one Moca signal on top of the other messing up the second Bolt to work with the first Bolt's Moca feature?

    Should I use a cable TV splitter and hook spliter-1 output directly to the second Bolt, and spliter-2 output to the Actiontec? Or is this still mixing signals?

    I was hoping to be able to set the first Bolt to "create a mocha network", and on the other side (second Bolt) I could integrate the Actiontec in somehow to supply that wired connections for other devices. But the Bolt does not have a pass-thru cable connection, and the Actiontec pass-thru to the Tivo apparently does not work when another Tivo os set for "create a mocha network".

    Actually what I had before the Bolt(s) was a network using Actiontec's adaptors along with 8-port gigabit switches to expand the Actiontec single output.
    And this worked, the Actiontec along with a 8-port switch.

    But something is going wrong when I use the Actiontec moca adaptor plus enable the moca feature on the first and second Bolt. Using the Actiontec pass-thru to the Tivo Bolt is not a working option.
    Not sure how to wire this up or if this is even possible, having the first Bolt creating a moca network plus the Actiontec (and switch) on the same line for the other devices.
    I hope some of this makes sense.

    The reason I wanted both was when I only used the Actiontec adaptors and ethernet with the Bolt's and did not enable moca feature on the Bolt's at all, only connecting the Bolt's via the ethernet from the Actiontec adaptors, I can not stream from one Bolt to another. I get a network error on the Bolt(s). The Bolt's see each other but will not begin streaming without an network error.

    But, if I have the first Bolt set as "create a mocha network" and the second Bolt as "connect via moca", and do not use the Actiontec adaptor, then streaming goes ok.
    But with that connection, having the cable TV cord directly to the Tivo Bolt(s) I have no way to use the Actiontec adaptor for hard wiring those other devices.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
  2. UCLABB

    UCLABB Well-Known Member

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    I'm having a hard time fully understanding what you want. Have you considered using the ethernet out on the Bolt to a switch where you can connect your other devices? Would that accomplish what you want?
     
  3. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    A diagram of your setup would be helpful (see attached for examples), but some suggestions can still be offered lacking exact understanding.
    1. Adapter TV/RF Out no-go for MoCA devices: No, you don't want to connect ANY MoCA-enabled device to the TV/RF Out port of an Actiontec MoCA adapter, as the adapter doesn't pass MoCA frequencies through this port. (It's intended only for connection of non-MoCA devices.)

    2. TiVo/Actiontec compatibility: TiVo MoCA devices are all either MoCA 1.1 (pre-BOLT DVRs & Mini) or 2.0 (BOLTs, TiVo Bridge) and are compatible with Actiontec MoCA devices spec'd for MoCA 1.1 or later. (i.e. A MoCA 1.0 adapter may cause problems, but that's not likely your situation.)

      Per the MoCA spec, MoCA nodes will communicate with each other at the highest spec supported by both nodes; so, standard MoCA 2.0 devices will communicate with each other at standard MoCA 2.0 rates (400+Mbps) while MoCA 1.1 devices will always communicate at 1.1 rates over coax (140-170 Mbps), even when networking with a MoCA 2.0 node.

    3. Single MoCA bridge allowed: If you're looking to use your BOLT to create your MoCA network, then you must NOT also have an Actiontec adapter bridging between your home network (Ethernet LAN) and your coax lines. So, if you previously were using an Actiontec adapter connected to your router's Ethernet LAN ports and your coax lines, this adapter should be removed from the setup. The BOLT will now act as your bridge between your coax segment and your Ethernet LAN, even for other Actiontec adapters in the house.

    4. Standalone vs DVR built-in MoCA bridge: Given the greater frequency of reboots associated with DVRs, some prefer to use standalone adapters as their MoCA bridge to ensure consistent Internet connectivity for other devices connected via MoCA.

      The main advantage of using a BOLT as the MoCA bridge, versus a MoCA 1.1 adapter, is the BOLT's MoCA 2.0 spec and Gigabit Ethernet port, ensuring maximum throughput for both BOLTs and any other MoCA 2.0 devices. A TiVo Bridge (or similar Actiontec adapter) used as the MoCA bridge would provide the same bandwidth benefits, but the added advantage of consistent connectivity -- at an added cost.

    5. Extending wired connectivity at TiVo MoCA-client DVR: If you have a BOLT strictly connecting as a MoCA client (i.e. not creating your MoCA network), then you can use it's otherwise-unused Ethernet port to extend wired Ethernet access to other co-located Ethernet devices, either to a single device, connected directly, or to multiple devices, by connecting the BOLT's Ethernet port to a network switch. Note that the TiVo Mini does not support this capability, since it lacks the bridging functionality.

      The key is that the Ethernet port on the BOLT must be disconnected if/when configuring the BOLT to "Connect using MoCA"; once the BOLT is verified as networking via MoCA, you can connect to its Ethernet port and the BOLT will automatically bridge the traffic to the coax segment (and via the coax segment, to the Ethernet LAN and Internet).

      Your suggestion of using an Actiontec adapter connected via a splitter would also work, at a slight cost of cable TV signal strength to the BOLT.
      But you could also have stuck with your original setup, using an Actiontec adapter as your main bridge, and then simply connecting each BOLT as a MoCA client ("Connect using MoCA") -- with your 8-port switch at each location connecting to the BOLT Ethernet port after MoCA initialization
      (edit: Though, honestly, this suggestion doesn't make much sense for the BOLT location where Ethernet is already accessible. It *might* make sense to make both BOLTs MoCA clients, to improve throughput between them and to keep TiVo traffic off your Ethernet LAN, but you wouldn't need to do the whole isolated network switch setup at the location where Ethernet is already accessible.)

    .
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
  4. randy1649

    randy1649 Member

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    I didn't know the Bolt had an ethernet "out"?
    Isn't that port only for ethernet in?
    Or can it function as an "out" when the Bolt is set up using the moca feature?
     
  5. randy1649

    randy1649 Member

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    Thanks for all that.
    It answers what I wanted to know even though I did not explain my issue clearly, still your suggestions did make sense.

    #1. Answered: that the Actiontec adaptors does not pass thru MoCA frequencies. That was one of my unknowns.

    #2. Splitter probably would degrade the signal too much.
    Plus I would not know what type of splitter even to use.

    I'll keep messing with my Bolt's and network setup.

    Originally, the following was my basic issue:
    When only using my Actiontec adaptors with an 8-port gigabyte switch, I could plug an ethernet cable into my Bolt(s) and have a wired internet connection. And the Bolt's would connect to the internet for guide updates just fine. Thing was, the streaming feature would never work.
    The Bolt's could see each on the network and see the other Bolt recordings, but recordings failed to actually stream from one Bolt to another. When trying to actually stream an error would always come up on the Bolt "failed, check network connections".
    So streaming between the Bolt's was something I wanted to do but could not successfully when using only my Actiontec adaptors.

    And when I had the Bolt's set using their internal moca feature, one set "creating" a moca network, and the other Bolt as a client, streaming worked. However that way I had cable only connections (moca) from Bolt to Bolt directly.
    I still needed some way to add in there a way to provide more wired ethernet connections to those "other" devices.
    So that was when I tried to add in an Actiontec adaptor into the mix.
    Doing that messed up the Bolt's ability to connect to the outside world.

    What I am now understanding from the responses, that if I have one Bolt "creating" a moca network and a second Bolt set as a moca "client", then I can use that ethernet port on the "client Bolt" to provide hardwired internet to another external device?
    Am I correct understanding that client Bolt ethernet port will output an ethernet signal?
    If that is the case, then that might solve everything.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
  6. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Ethernet is bidirectional, so there isn't such thing as an "in" or "out" port.

    But effectively, yes, per bullet #5 in the above post.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
  7. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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  8. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    You may want to review the following post, as one possible fix for Ethernet streaming issues: Toggling IGMP Snooping resolves Mini Ethernet issues
     
  9. randy1649

    randy1649 Member

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    Apr 18, 2011
  10. randy1649

    randy1649 Member

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    Wasn't sure if that Tivo Bolt ethernet port was "active" if unit is set to moca.
    I assume it is?
    The port is communicating via ethernet if using moca?
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
  11. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Extending wired connectivity at a MoCA-client TiVo DVR: If you have a TiVo DVR* strictly connecting as a MoCA client (i.e. using its built-in MoCA capability but NOT creating your MoCA network), then you can use its otherwise-unused Ethernet port to extend wired Ethernet access to other co-located Ethernet devices, either to a single device, connected directly, or to multiple devices, by connecting the DVR's Ethernet port to an isolated network switch.

    For example:

    MoCA - simple cable setup.png

    The key is that the Ethernet port on the DVR must be disconnected if/when configuring the DVR as a MoCA client (aka "Connect using MoCA"); once the DVR is verified as networking via MoCA, you can connect to its Ethernet port and the DVR will automatically bridge the traffic to the coax segment (and via the coax segment, to the Ethernet LAN and Internet).

    ---
    * NOTE: This capability, though not supported by TiVo were you to ask, is available to all MoCA bridging-capable TiVo DVRs configured as MoCA clients: all BOLT models except the BOLT OTA, 6-tuner Roamios & 4-tuner Premieres. Note that no TiVo Minis support this functionality, since Minis lack the MoCA bridging capability.

    (edited to update w/ unsupported qualification per followup post by thyname; later updated to include example diagram; Jan2019 update to exclude BOLT OTA)
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
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  12. thyname

    thyname Well-Known Member

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    If I may add something to an otherwise excellent post by Karl (as always) is that this is not officially supported by Tivo, so don't mention it when / if you call Tivo to troubleshoot something with it. From my own experience, it works great!
     
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  13. squash22

    squash22 New Member

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    Hello, resurrecting an old thread. I'm new to the forum.
    I recently bought a Tivo Bolt Vox and tried connecting to my Fios Quantum Gateway router and after reading krkaufman's posts. I think I now understand my difficulties.
    I followed the usual installation instructions for using the Tivo to setup it's own MoCA network. Instructions said to hook up both my coax and then ethernet to the Fios router. Everytime I did this though, Coax first and then ethernet, it would knock out my router. Meaning the router would lose DHCP handling, all devices would basically disconnect. I would factory reset and no matter what, every time I connected the ethernet port from the Tivo to the router and would run the Tivo Connection in the setup menu, the router would stop functioning.

    I then decided to do run the Tivo Connection setup with the coax only and it worked. This made me realize that there was probably a MoCA network being setup directly from the Fios ONT (because my coax cable comes directly from the ONT and is split to the Gateway router/modem and to the Tivo), and not through the Gateway router/modem. And the Tivo was acting as a client on the already setup MoCA network. Am I correct in this assumption?

    If I'm right, then every time I connected the ethernet to the router, if the ethernet port in the Tivo is acting like a bridge/extender, it was like creating a loop which would crash the router/modem.
     
  14. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    That's pretty much it, yes, except if your WAN connection between the ONT and your G1100 FiOS gateway is via coax, then you have TWO MoCA networks on your coax lines:
    • MoCA WAN :: MoCA/coax connection between the ONT and your G1100, supplying the G1100 with its WAN connection.
    • MoCA LAN :: If you check your G1100's UI, you'll find that it has a MoCA LAN enabled, and it is this MoCA network that you're conflicting with when configuring the BOLT with MoCA and also connecting the BOLT via Ethernet to the G1100.
    Your G1100 is establishing your MoCA network. So, depending on how you want the BOLT networked, you need to connect the BOLT via coax for TV signals, but you should only connect it via Ethernet to the router if you're configuring the BOLT as an Ethernet client, with MoCA disabled.
     
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  15. squash22

    squash22 New Member

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    ok, thank you for that clarification.

    Is there any benefit to having the Bolt networked as an Ethernet client vs a MoCA client?

    Currently the only issue I seem to be having is connecting the iOS app for streaming, it keeps saying I have to connect to the same Wifi network. Even though it sees all the devices (Tivo Volt and 2 Minis) on the the MoCA network. How it even does that baffles me, but it sees them but won't connect to stream.

    Also I will be upgrading to the Gigabit Fios (in a few days), and they supposedly disable the coax and run only ethernet to the router, so I may be forced to setup the Tivo as an ethernet client only.

    Sorry for the multitude of questions, but I just started using these devices and am bursting at the seams to understand them.
     
  16. fyodor

    fyodor Active Member

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    I think what is happening is that even though you are splitting the coax from the ONT, MoCA can communicate between multiple outputs of a splitter (which is how different rooms communicate in a regular MoCA setup). So you are creating a double looped connection between the Tivo and the G1100, 1st through the splitter, and second through the direct Ethernet connection. As suggested, if you have an ethernet connection between your Tivo and your modem, disable MoCA and just use the Ethernet for data.

    If later on you get a mini or something in another room, that will be able to use its MoCA connection to connect to the G1100 through its MoCA bridge and then to the Tivo via the Ethernet
     
  17. fyodor

    fyodor Active Member

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    You will need a coax run from the ONT to the tivo to carry cable TV signals in order for the Tivo to work. I'd make sure that whoever does your install knows that.
     
  18. squash22

    squash22 New Member

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    Wait, can't the Tivo Bolt (with CableCard decoder) use ethernet only to work?

    It shows it on the setup instructions that you can choose one method for connection - ethernet or MoCA or Wifi.
    Set up and connect your Unified Entertainment System.

    It seems Wifi is a terrible option because it won't allow streaming between the Bolt and Mini's.
    But ethernet vs MoCA, I'm wondering if there is a big difference.
     
  19. fyodor

    fyodor Active Member

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    It only needs Ethernet to communicate with other devices (or the internet). It still needs a cable TV signal to record television.
     

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