Moca and amplifiers

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by DblJBird, Sep 9, 2019.

  1. DblJBird

    DblJBird New Member

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    Sep 5, 2019
    Problem:
    Moca keeps dropping Live TV on Minis only when using moca amplifier.

    Setup:
    TiVo Bolt Vox
    7 Mini Vox's
    Currently the system is fine. All are currently connected via 8-way splitter with Bolt as Bridge problem-free. Although, there are 3 higher end HD channels with pixelating issues.(No doubt with an 11db loss at each tap.) Moca has 0 issues, just those channels. Inevitably, after 2 days and 15 hours trying different set-ups and trouble-shooting multiple moca issues, I have simply corrected it by placing a CATV amp before the POE filter and splitter.

    My issue is when I tried using a Commscope 8 way moca amplifier. 0db loss at each tap. All devices are terminated at one of the 8 taps. Streaming via apps with the Minis seemingly had no issues. Although, I'm assuming too many bad packets kept getting past because when watching live TV, within a few seconds to a couple minutes, the picture would drop with a pop-up stating the mini lost connection with the Bolt. I could immediately hit live TV and it would come back on, but repeat the above problem.

    I've had a vendor meet with Spectrum and their signal at their drop is perfect. Although my current setup without the moca amp seems to have corrected all my issues, I don't feel it as the proper way to run the catv signal in as hot and would like to have the cleaner, less component use of the single moca amp.

    I personally wired the house when it was built. All RG6 quad.

    So I'm at a loss. My guess is an attenuation issue maybe? The moca amp is a much more efficient set-up so that is where my confusion is. Sadly, it doesn't seem that you can check signals at the Mini anywhere. It's very unfortunate as it would be a huge troubleshooting tool.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    14,930
    2,499
    Nov 25, 2003
    Based on a quick skim, a couple questions...

    What's the model number of your CommScope MoCA amplifier, and can you relate to which output ports the various devices/locations are (were) connected?

    Being a Spectrum customer, do you have a SDV Tuning Adapter at the BOLT location, and, if so, how are the BOLT and Tuning Adapter connected via coax?

    Re: checking Mini signals... you can check the MoCA stats for the MoCA-connected Minis via the Network Status dialog, though you'll need to use the Channel Down/Up buttons to navigate the multiple pages of information.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  3. DblJBird

    DblJBird New Member

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    0
    Sep 5, 2019
    Commscope
    Commscope CSMAPDU9VPI. All 1-8 ports out used. I've tried the Bolt in various taps. The Bolt itself is 15' from the splitter. Two adjacent TVs are in the next room 40-60'. The rest are out 75-130' from there.

    Commscope moca splitter > 2 way moca splitter > tuning adapter/Bolt

    Thank you for the diag info. I do remember seeing the faded print, couldn't figure out how to scroll, and that issue was lost in my 2 day frenzy.

    Maybe I chose the wrong splitter/amp? I've worked with moca for years with no issues. But as I explained to my client, that's the problem. You don't necessarily learn enough until you run into problems.

    It may also be worth noting I originally had a Tivo Bridge in the mix as well. That is a complete different thread though as to why I removed that.
     
  4. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    Feb 19, 2015
    A few thoughts, since only the Bolt and the cable modem are likely to need a clean/strong signal, do you need a multiport splitter/amp like the Commscope. BTW, there is a an older version of that same CSMAPDU9VPI model number, but without the little yellow "MoCA" label on it, that was also claimed to work with MoCA systems. It did to a degree but not well. And since no MoCA friendly amp actually boosts MoCA frequencies, you might consider something like one of these, https://www.amazon.com/AMPHENOL-IPG...moca+splitter&qid=1568117791&s=gateway&sr=8-4
    I believe those Amphenol splitters were used by Comcast with their MoCA based systems and although not amplified, they seem optimized for MoCA use as 4 of their ports are for MoCA use only. It also has a builtin MoCA filter and appears to be designed to be the primary splitter for the home. The 3 "Hybrid" ports carry both MoCA and CATV and need to be used with the Tivo DVR and cable modem. If additional splitters are needed they recommend the Holland MoCA series be used.
    I suppose a single in and out amp could be used to feed the Amphenol splitter if amplification of the signal is necessary.
    EDIT: Youtube video explaining possible benefits of Amphenol Hybrid Splitter,
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  5. tarheelblue32

    tarheelblue32 Well-Known Member

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    Jan 12, 2014
    Raleigh, NC
    That was my thought. That amp is the likely cause of your problems. I would try getting an unbalanced 3-way splitter and send the stronger output to the Bolt, one of the weaker outputs to the modem, and then the other weaker output to a 2-way splitter and then 2 4-way splitters to feed to the mini locations. MoCA is designed to "power through" splitters. It really shouldn't need any sort of amplification.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  6. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    14,930
    2,499
    Nov 25, 2003
    That pretty much describes the function of the hybrid MoCA splitter suggested by @fcfc2, above, all in a single component:
    Definitely worth a try, given the minimal expense.

    edit: pic:
    Amphenol Hybrid Splitter.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
    fcfc2 likes this.
  7. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    14,930
    2,499
    Nov 25, 2003
    Does this mean that the Tuning Adapter and the BOLT are separately connected to the outputs of a 2-way MoCA splitter, rather than the BOLT being connected via the Tuning Adapter's RF out/pass-through port?

    p.s. What brand/model # is the 2-way splitter?
     
  8. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    14,930
    2,499
    Nov 25, 2003
    The hybrid splitter would possibly address this by ensuring less loss for the "cable signal" connections, either 4 or 7.5 dB, and 12 dB loss for the MoCA-only outputs. This might be enough to allow you to remove the upstream amplifier and go with a passive-only solution.

    Whatever works. You've effectively arrived at a 3 component configuration matching the function of a "designed for MoCA" amplifier. What's the model # of this upstream amp? And the splitter?
     

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