MOCA adapters, Tivo Roamio, and Google WiFi

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by jaj2276, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. Jan 9, 2019 #1 of 32
    jaj2276

    jaj2276 Member

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    For Christmas I was given four Motorola MOCA 2.0 adapters and 4 Google WiFi points. I'm a bit confused as to how to position the one MOCA adapter that interfaces with the cable modem and one of the Google WiFi points.

    My previous setup consisted of Tivo Roamio, a TP-Link wireless router, and 3 Actiontec 1.1 MOCA adapters. The Tivo Roamio acted as the bridge. The cable coming out of the wall was split, one coax going to the Roamio and one coax gong to the cable modem. The cable modem then had an ethernet cable going to my TP-Link wireless router. Other rooms in my house then had coax going to a Actiontec MOCA adapter and an ethernet cable going to a switch (which then gave network access to an array of devices in those rooms).

    Upon receiving the Motorola MOCA adapters and the Google WiFi points, I set off on upgrading my network to MOCA 2.0. My first attempt was to take one of the coax cables from the splitter and go to the MOCA adapter. Then coax from the adapter to the cable modem. The other coax went to the Roamio (no change there). An ethernet cable then ran from the modem to the Google WiFi point. The other rooms had coax going to MOCA adapters then to Google WiFi points. The Roamio was changed to be a MOCA client as opposed to a MOCA bridge.

    Everything worked! Roamio had internet access using MOCA, all Google WiFi points were connected via wired instead of wirelessly, and three TiVo minis

    So why the thread? Well starting the day after the switch over, the cable modem started losing signal. Instead of having up and down links connected and blue, it would have down connected (but green) and then constantly flash the up link. Oddly enough as soon as I pulled the plug and made the modem go through a hard boot, it would immediately connect again (up and down links blue).

    Since the only thing I changed with regards to the cable modem was that I inserted a MOCA adpater in between it and the splitter, I decided to take a coax from the splitter and go to the MOCA adapter and then to the Roamio. The other coax from the splitter then went straight to the modem (just like my TP-Link wireless router setup). As soon as I did this, my Roamio could not get an IP no matter what I did. And obviously my Tivo Minis were useless. The Google WiFi points were able to connect so not sure why the Roamio, when getting its coax from the MOCA adapter, was having an issue.

    It could be that it's purely coincidental that I experienced these outages on the first two days after I made the switch to MOCA 2.0/Google WiFi (and thus inserted a MOCA adapter in between the splitter and cable modem) but man that's a crazy coincidence.

    Once I gave up on getting the Roamio to get an IP if the MOCA adapter was between the splitter and Roamio and went back to having the MOCA adapter between the splitter and cable modem, I got everything to talk again and I haven't had another outage (it's been 1/2 day).

    I"m just wondering if someone could explain why the MOCA adapter can't be between the splitter and Roamio and/or why the MOCA adapter has to be between the splitter and modem.
     
  2. Jan 9, 2019 #2 of 32
    jaj2276

    jaj2276 Member

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    As I'm thinking about my lengthy post, I wonder if I should simply replace my splitter with a 3-way and then have one coax going to the MOCA adapter (and no coax going from the MOCA adapter to anything), one coax going to the Roamio, and one going to the Modem. That way if the Modem is having issues because it's getting the signal after going through the MOCA adapter, the 3-way splitter will make sure that each endpoint (MOCA adapter, Roamio, cable modem) is getting the coax without any interference. I've not wanted to go this route because a 3-way splitter degrades the signal for 2 of the 3 drops but maybe that won't be an issue.
     
  3. Jan 9, 2019 #3 of 32
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    The MoCA adapter (pretty much any with a STB/TV Out RF pass-through port) doesn't pass the full frequency range to/from the pass-through port. To conserve signal strength, these adapters use a diplexer approach rather than splitting the signal, so the MoCA frequencies are fed to the internal MoCA circuitry and the sub-MoCA frequencies are passed to/from the pass-through port. So trying to run a MoCA device connected via the RF pass-through port of a MM1000 (or ECB6200 or ECB2500C) will put a severe hurt on the MoCA signals, likely preventing a stable, or any, connection.

    So... you could connect the Roamio Pro via Ethernet and disable its MoCA function -- which would make for the best throughput: the Roamio Pro is limited to 170 Mbps via its MoCA 1.1 interface, but Gigabit's the limit via Ethernet.
     
  4. Jan 9, 2019 #4 of 32
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    This setup should have worked, though you'd need to know what frequencies/channels your provider is using for the Internet connection to determine if the MoCA adapter's pass-through port is affecting connectivity.

    What brand/model is your cable gateway?

    Can you check the gateway's UI to see what it reports for the frequencies in use for its downstream and upstream connections?

    Is it possible the outage was just coincidental?
     
  5. Jan 9, 2019 #5 of 32
    jaj2276

    jaj2276 Member

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    Perfect, thank you!

    Currently the ethernet cable goes from the modem to the Google WiFi (which has 2 ports so this takes up one port) and then an ethernet cable goes from the Google WiFi to the MOCA adapter (taking up the 2nd port). If I were to make the Roamio connect via ethernet then I'd need to buy a gigabit switch and make the 2nd port on the Google WiFi serve this switch and then have the switch go to both the MOCA adapter and the Roamio. Definitely doable but I'll need to buy it.

    Given your answer, I'll try the 3-way splitter as I do have one of those lying around and see if that will solve all the problems. And if it doesn't then I'll go back to the two-way and buy another gigabit swtich.

    Thanks again for the response.
     
    krkaufman likes this.
  6. Jan 9, 2019 #6 of 32
    gsutkin

    gsutkin Member

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    Is there a good thread on pairing Google Fiber with TiVo? I am currently using Spectrum with cable cards and Digital Tuning Adapters, but the signal is funky, and legions of Spectrum technicians visit the house, but can't improve the signal. Should I give Google Fiber a try?

    Thanks
    Gary
     
  7. Jan 9, 2019 #7 of 32
    jaj2276

    jaj2276 Member

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    The setup did work but each day as soon as I went to this setup, an internet outage per day would occur. Also once the modem lost signal it could never recover until I pulled the power on the cable modem. As soon as I did that the modem connected (i.e. the outage was over at the exact time I rebooted my modem). It very well could be coincidental but man that's a crazy coincidence.

    Today I'm running that same setup and haven't had an "outage" yet so I might continue to run it like this (2-way splitter, one coax going to roamio and other coax going to adapter and then on to the modem) until it happens again.

    I'm using Comcast and I own the modem, a Motorola MB8600. I'll look for the frequencies tonight once I get home.
     
  8. Jan 9, 2019 #8 of 32
    jaj2276

    jaj2276 Member

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    I can't speak to Google Fiber and/or Spectrum but I had an issue one time where all the sudden I couldn't tune 4 or 5 channels out of the 160 I was paying for. These weren't pay channels either (some of them were broadcast channels) and they had been working fine for years. So what I did was I took an old TV that had an ATSC tuner built in and also had a signal strength options and went outside my home and connected directly from the coax coming up from the ground right to the TV. Doing this took ALL possible home issues (bad cable somewhere, bad splitter, long run, cable card issue, etc.) off the table.

    I then was able to confirm that the same channels I couldn't tune inside the home had signal strengths that were much lower than the other channels (i.e. the good signals showed a strength of 99 while these channels had signals of 70). I called up the cable company and told them about the steps I had done. They of course discounted everything I said and looked at all splitters in my house, etc. I told him again that I could recreate the problem using only the cable coming from their drop. As soon as he then was forced to look at some of their equipment nearby did he found that a few "drops" (no idea what part this really was) were bad and another crew would be by later that evening to fix it. The next day everything was fixed.

    All that to say that you still might be able to work with Spectrum but you might need to think outside the box to figure out a way to prove to them that it's their issue. Good luck.
     
  9. Jan 9, 2019 #9 of 32
    ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

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    You can only use Google fiber for internet and not for TV, which would be IPTV and Tivo doesn't support it.

    In other words, Tivo can use any internet, except dial-up, as long as it will go through the network Tivo is connected to.

    I use ATT Fiber and the same modem/gateway/router as was when I had ATT Uverse internet, just the ONT goes in a different port.
     
  10. jaj2276

    jaj2276 Member

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    My system has been up for a little over 14 hours w/o experiencing an outage. A coax from 2-way splitter goes to Roamio and the other coax goes to a MOCA 2.0 Adapter and then coax on to the Motorola MB8600 cable mode. Here are the current frequencies I'm using for both up and downstream channels:

    Downstream Bonded Channels [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Channel Lock Status Modulation Channel ID Freq. (MHz) Pwr (dBmV) SNR (dB) Corrected Uncorrected
    1 Locked QAM256 8 513.0 -10.6 39.7 124 112
    2 Locked QAM256 1 465.0 -11.1 39.6 2189 3279
    3 Locked QAM256 2 471.0 -10.2 40.0 2137 3221
    4 Locked QAM256 3 477.0 -10.4 39.8 2171 3267
    5 Locked QAM256 5 489.0 -11.3 39.5 2074 3231
    6 Locked QAM256 6 495.0 -10.6 39.7 2231 3282
    7 Locked QAM256 7 507.0 -10.6 39.5 2380 3347
    8 Locked QAM256 9 519.0 -9.5 40.0 2210 3238
    9 Locked QAM256 10 525.0 -9.5 39.8 2185 3237
    10 Locked QAM256 11 531.0 -10.2 37.3 2266 3390
    11 Locked QAM256 12 537.0 -10.6 38.8 2096 3346
    12 Locked QAM256 13 543.0 -9.9 39.8 2075 3219
    13 Locked QAM256 14 549.0 -9.1 40.0 2027 3214
    14 Locked QAM256 15 555.0 -10.5 39.7 2024 3236
    15 Locked QAM256 16 561.0 -10.8 39.5 2067 3220
    16 Locked QAM256 17 567.0 -11.1 39.2 2050 3191
    17 Locked QAM256 18 573.0 -10.0 39.6 2016 3201
    18 Locked QAM256 19 579.0 -10.1 39.4 2013 3191
    19 Locked QAM256 20 585.0 -10.3 39.3 1953 3207
    20 Locked QAM256 21 591.0 -10.6 35.2 2240 3431
    21 Locked QAM256 22 597.0 -10.1 37.2 2078 3340
    22 Locked QAM256 23 603.0 -10.7 38.0 2116 3468
    23 Locked QAM256 24 609.0 -10.4 38.8 2456 3386
    24 Locked QAM256 25 615.0 -11.3 38.6 2438 3292
    25 Locked QAM256 26 621.0 -11.4 38.6 2316 3346
    26 Locked QAM256 27 627.0 -11.2 38.6 2271 3278
    27 Locked QAM256 28 633.0 -11.1 38.5 2321 3325
    28 Locked QAM256 29 639.0 -11.9 38.4 2477 3281
    29 Locked QAM256 30 645.0 -11.4 38.5 2807 3323
    30 Locked QAM256 31 651.0 -11.7 38.3 2826 3452
    31 Locked QAM256 32 657.0 -11.5 38.3 2341 3281
    32 Locked OFDM PLC 33 690.0 -12.8 34.8 0 0


    Upstream Bonded Channels [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Channel Lock Status Channel Type Channel ID Symb. Rate (Ksym/sec) Freq. (MHz) Pwr (dBmV)
    1 Locked SC-QAM 81 5120 35.8 59.0
    2 Locked SC-QAM 82 5120 29.4 59.0
    3 Locked SC-QAM 83 5120 23.0 57.8
    4 Locked SC-QAM 84 5120 16.6 58.5
     
  11. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, so those 39 dB SNR levels are a bit low and the +10 dB Signal Strength is bordering on too high.

    You might consider trying an Attenuator to pull those levels down a few db. The signal is considered within the 'good' range all the way down to -7 dB.

    -KP
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  12. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

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    On the contrary, SNR is considered a little too high. Ideal is about 37.
     
  13. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

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    Comcast won't let a tech leave an install if it's below 40 dB.

    -KP
     
  14. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    That's a DOCSIS 3.1 modem, so my expectation is that you would WANT to keep the MoCA signals away from it. (DOCSIS 3.1 and MoCA frequencies overlap, so some DOCSIS 3.1 devices become unstable when they see MoCA signals on the coax.)

    A suggestion ... put a MoCA filter on the modem's coax input port, to block MoCA signals from getting to the modem. (And the MoCA filter shouldn't be a problem, at present, for your Internet connection, since all your current upstream/downstream frequencies are well below the MoCA range.)

    edit: p.s. The suggested protective/prophylactic MoCA filter is the same component as used at the Point-of-Entry ("PoE"), but serving a more limited purpose ... just blocking MoCA signals from reaching the modem. (So you'd need two MoCA filters in your setup.)

    p.p.s. Honestly, I'm a little surprised that modem didn't act-up prior to the MM1000 installs, when you just had the MoCA 1.1 devices in place.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  15. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

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    That maybe, for the signal strength, but this is SNR.
     
  16. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

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    Signal Strength is the -7 db to ~+11 dB part.

    The 40 dB part is the Upstream.

    -KP
     
  17. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

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    The list is a bit confusing, so needs proper formatting and using spaces for separation is pointless.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  18. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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  19. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

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    Channel Lock Status Modulation Channel ID Frequency Power SNR Corrected Uncorrectables

    1 Locked QAM256 8 513.0 -10.6 39.7 124 112

    Well...that doesn't work too good, either...

    -KP
     
  20. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

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    I think I got a better look now, refreshed my post.
     

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