Missed "first run only" season pass - Will TiVo record a repeat to cover missed pgm?

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by Cartrivision, Mar 22, 2005.

  1. OLdDog

    OLdDog Reformed Druid

    Dec 15, 2001
    I did not miss the point at all. An extra option for SPs like you suggest is, to me, a MUCH lees elegant solution.

    SPs, are designed to be on ch only and WLs are designed to allow mult chs and trying to make SP be more WL like only adds needless complexities to the SP manager's function and would require reworking that logic.

    While that might be a good thing it is not something that I would want to see TiVo do at this time as it would require a reworking of a fairly stable part of the code and recent history shows that TiVo's debugging ability has faired badly in the last several releases and even the fixes have had to be fixed several times.

    If it ain't broke; Don't fix it.
  2. dgh

    dgh New Member

    Jul 24, 2000
    Nope I didn't miss it either. I wouldn't be against an "any channel" option, but there's another 20-50 things I'd rank higher, so, I was just pointing out that while we wait for that feature to get implemented - or not - it's not that bad.
  3. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

    Apr 9, 2001
    I think a better way of doing it would be a one step way of converting a SP into an ARWL. e.g. for the example given, a "The Apprentice" SP could be turned into a "The Apprentice" title-based wishlist with autorecording turned on with the same recording options as the original SP by default.

    But I too think this is relatively low on the priority scale. Making ARWLs for a bunch of PBS shows (since we have several PBS stations here) wasn't too big of a deal..

    (MUCH higher priority: multiple tuners and/or cooperative scheduling, FSI, soft padding, editing recordings before burning to DVD (or even just on the hard drive if you've watched half of a movie for example)... and a zillion other things. But I'd upgrade hardware for multiple tuners, and would pay extra money for the rest of the features even though I already have lifetime subscriptions.)
  4. Cartrivision

    Cartrivision New Member

    Feb 17, 2005
    Actually it is broke.

    Season passes are meant for recording recurring episodes of one show. The logic using a season pass has nothing to do with one channel only. There is nothing less elegant about adding an "any channel" option to a season pass instead of forcing the user to try to figure out a wishlist combination that will implement a season pass. The simplicity of adding an "any channel" option to season passes over using a wishlist is what makes it way more elegant. Simplicity equals elegance.

    The fact is that there are now more than a hundred channels, with many shared by a common program provider, so even first run progams air on multiple channels. HBO is not one channel, it is multiple channels, as are many other networks. The season pass logic is broken. That's why TiVo has it on their list of possible improvements for it's customers to rank (http://research.tivo.com/suggestions/). The days of "one program-one channel" ended years ago. Hopefully TiVo will update their software to reflect that fact.
  5. Stylin

    Stylin Stylish Jane Sixpack

    Dec 31, 2004
    Worked! I was having a problem with WL recording duplicates of Oprah & Tyra, as they repeat all day on different channels. I just set up as per your instructions, and it will grab 1 ep per day from any channel. Thanks for the tip!
  6. Stylin

    Stylin Stylish Jane Sixpack

    Dec 31, 2004
    I was having a problem with WL recording 3 duplicates of Oprah & Tyra, as they repeat all day on different channels. I just set up as per instructions below, and 'To Do" shows it will grab 1 ep per day from any channel. Thanks for the tip!

  7. Sirshagg

    Sirshagg New Member

    Dec 26, 2001
    At first glance I thought SP across multiple channels would be bad. But after reading through this entire thread i would support it. Just because the feature is there doe not mean you have to use it. Leave the default s this channel, but allow changing it to any channel. I really don't see a down side. - other then the resources necessary to code it.
  8. mikebridge

    mikebridge Member

    Sep 18, 2000
    Plainfield, IL
    that survey is out of date, we have some of the features listed on it already.
  9. tazzftw

    tazzftw New Member

    Mar 26, 2005
    You people anger me

    Isn't the point of a Season Pass to record every airing of a show? Obviously, that is not the case.

    I'm constantly taking my TiVo to different area codes. Several of the shows I record are on local affiliates that the Wishlists won't record. And I DO NOT want to set up Wishlishes for all these shows. Isn't the point of a TiVo to make watching shows easier? Setting up several extra season passes or having to create weird inaccurate wishlistes is NOT easier.

    This is a great OPTION to have available and I don't see one good reason why they shouldn't add it. And don't tell me bugs, because by that logic the TiVo should never upgrade.

    Now, I won't abandon TiVo if they don't do it. I'm just saying it's a great idea and a big "wag of a finger" to those who don't even want it as an option.
  10. Leon WIlkinson

    Leon WIlkinson TiVo Gone Wild

    Feb 13, 2000
    TiVo Town

    I think the limiting factor is that you have 2 option on season passes(1 or Last). If the season pass option could include all channels with this show, then build multiple season passes which could be structured internally.

    If you could rank your conflicts, in order the most wanted, Then the TiVo would chew on that then setup the season passes to best achieve all the shows. If it can't be totally resolved you would get a msg of the conflict
  11. Adam1115

    Adam1115 Well-Known Member

    Dec 15, 2003
    Denver ish

    Well, I'd say, no, obviously it is only designed to record a season of a show on one channel.

    But I agree with you that it should change with the times. One thing I don't like about the season passes, is that I have an HD-TiVo and record the same show OTA and also via Satellite. I prefer OTA because it is far better quality, yet sometimes I get breakups of have problems with the OTA feed. So I set up TWO season passes, one for each channel. I have the opposite problem as it decides not to record the later satellite version because it already recorded.

    So while it is 'per channel', it really isn't because they aren't completely independent. There should be a setting to lock it down to one channel, or look for the first run on any channel. I'm with you that it's a good idea..
  12. tazzftw

    tazzftw New Member

    Mar 26, 2005
    Sure it was designed for one channel, but to a person who hears Season Pass for the first time, they wouldn't think one channel.

    I also want to say that my anger came about because so many people didn't even want it as an option, and that's just mind boggling.
  13. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

    Oct 17, 2000
    The disadvantage of multiple SPs as opposed to one WL is that with multiple SPs, you have less control over WHEN the show will be recorded. It will first take the first channel, and get the earliest possible airing on that channel. If none of the showings are available, it will go to the second channel, and so on. So if you have, e.g.:

    Channel 1: 7:00 Sunday
    Channel 2: 10:00 Sunday
    Channel 1: 7:00 Friday

    with a conflict at 7:00 Sunday, your SPs will next go for the 7:00 Friday showing. A WL would go next to the 10:00 Sunday showing, and only if that were another conflict would it go to 7:00 Friday.

    I'm fine with the way it is. I find that if there are too many hits with a WL, I can always monkey with the Show Type to narrow it down so that I almost always only get what I want. Having an "any channel" option would be nice but almost completely unnecessary for me.
  14. cwerdna

    cwerdna Proud Tivolutionary

    Feb 22, 2001
    SF Bay Area, CA
    The problem about adding an "any channel" option to SPs is that you can have conflicts within that SP. Given the current model of season pass manager, how would you work out priorities?

    To me, it's GOOD that SPs are on a per channel basis. Go look up Law & Order: Criminal Intent (not that I watch the show). For me, it airs on SF11, USA and Bravo. Looking at the guide data, there would be numerous conflicts for single tuner units. How would I resolve them? What about the soft padding (overlap protection) that got added in ~7.x software for standalone units? If you had padding set in your SP, what determines which one wins?

    The easy workaround it to use title keyword WLs and/or setup SPs for all the shows and channels you care about then prioritize as needed.

    BTW, I never use First Run Only. I'm too worried about bad guide data (namely OAD) causing me to miss something. I don't recommend anyone else doing so either for critical shows.
  15. Jonathan_S

    Jonathan_S Well-Known Member

    Oct 23, 2001
    x is 28 days.

    A Show that is aired within 28 days of the Original Air Date (as listed in its guide data) is First Run.*
    If it has already been recorded once, then all the other showings within 28 days of that are Duplicates. (A First Run Only season pass won't record duplicates, which it why it doesn't normally record a new episode multiple times).

    *Or if the show is missing it guide data, and the TiVo can't determine which episode it is. This usually manifests itself as "generic guide data" where the description is just a general description of the entire show, not any specific episode. To err on the side of caution, the TiVo records those in case they might be first run.
  16. aindik

    aindik Well-Known Member

    Jan 23, 2002
    Are you sure about that? I thought it was a number much lower than 28. Like 5 or 7.

    28 is the number of days TiVo keeps track of what was recorded and deleted, for the purposes of not recording duplicates. "Duplicate or Not Duplicate" is separate from "First Run or Repeat."
  17. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

    Oct 17, 2000
    I seem to recall something close to but not quite 14..? I know that when A&E or USA were doing L&O reruns around ten days after the original showing, my wishlist would pick it up if it missed the first one.
  18. Puppy76

    Puppy76 Well-Known Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    I have to agree that it's a good idea to add an "any channel" option to Season Passes. I didn't realize until recently that it didn't already work that way. Keeping that as an option would be good though, for situations where we know that a show is on syndication on a different network, and maybe you only want those shows, or only want the new/er ones.

    One reason this may get REALLY important really fast is OTA ATSC. My understanding is that networks can at any time use as many sub-channels as they want within their bandwidth. Presumably that means for example, a new Law and Order might air on 25.1 one week, and 25.4 another week-I don't know exactly what the channels would look like, but I think that basic idea could and will happen.

    In that situation Tivo will be counting each of those sub channels as a seperate channel, and thus you'd have to set up a Season Pass for each sub channel, right? This could be totally broken as ATSC takes over...
  19. Jonathan_S

    Jonathan_S Well-Known Member

    Oct 23, 2001
    I sat down and tested it one time.
    Picked a show with numerous showing (Kim Possible on the Disney Channel), and kept creating conflicts with each showing of a new episode to see how far out the First Run Only season pass would reschedule it.

    It scheduled it at OAD + 27 days, but not at OAD + 29 days. (There wasn't a showing on OAD + 28 days).
  20. tazzftw

    tazzftw New Member

    Mar 26, 2005
    That's why our suggestion is for an OPTION!

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