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Discussion in 'TiVo Upgrade Center' started by ggieseke, May 10, 2015.
Thank you for your input! Hopefully I can pull this off okay lol
I had a similar issue in my PC with a boot drive and a separate software mirror set. Unplugging the mirror set and booting with just my boot drive and drive to be prepped resolved the problem.
I tried to prep a new 4TB drive in a brand new Bolt running TE4 (21.8.3) and it got stuck at the Starting Up screen. I went ahead and ran it through MFSR 18.104.22.168 just to confirm and it would still hang at Starting Up. What's interesting is I then downgraded the original drive to TE3. Once downgraded I put the prepped 4TB back in the bolt and it came up fine under TE3 with the full capacity.
Just to confirm my suspicion that the upgraded drive wouldn't work in TE4, I went ahead and used the app to upgrade to TE4. Sure enough on reboot it got stuck at the Starting Up screen again. Putting the original drive back in and downgrading to TE3, then putting the new drive got it working again.
It seems that maybe something changed in a newer version of TE4 that is preventing at least some (if not all) larger drives from working, even if run through MFSR.
BTW, I've had a Roamio running TE3 and a 10TB drive for a couple of years (using MFSR 22.214.171.124) and it's been working great for those asking about 10TB support (it is not a SMR drive).
Are you utilizing the full 10TB capacity, or is it only recognizing 8TB?
What model drive did you use as yes after the last TE4 update there were reports of issues with some drives (you should be able to find these in the Bolt forum)?
Sorry if this is the wrong forum/thread to ask this...
If I buy a new 7.68TB SSD drive for my Bolt and plug it in, and the Bolt has the current software updates, when I plug in the new drive, will the Bolt automatically format the drive to it's capacity.
I think I remember in one of the threads here, someone mentioned you don't have to do anything special, just plug in an empty drive, and now the TiVo will format it for you. Is that correct? Or should I still use MFS Reformatter (mfsr) to format the drive?
Roamio and Bolts will format and recognize up to 3TB. You would need to use MSFR to expand beyond that 3TB to recognize. However, a SSD may not be up to par with all the constant reads and writes to last the years. (So I've heard.)
Thanks, ok, so I still have to do the MSFR bit again.
As for how long they last, they basically last as long (worst case) or longer than traditional drives (assuming you get a modern SSD).
Using SSDs in DVRs - in Koherence
Hard drives last 5-7 years...
The down side is this:
However, our TiVo always goes in sleep mode when we turn it off, and I believe in that mode, it does not do the live TV caching and only records set recordings. I think SLEEP MODE is key. See here: https://support.tivo.com/articles/Features_Use/Power-Saving-and-Standby-Modes
So..... I think we should be OK, and I'm willing to give it a go with this 7.68TB SSD going for $1200:
What @ThAbtO said - you have to prep the drive before the bolt will use it (I'm using a WD Red 8TB drive right now with my bolt). And your SSD experience will be short lived. Tivo writes constantly and SSD's have a fraction of lifetime that magnetic disks to; you will kill that SSD pronto sticking it in a Tivo. And it's performance will likely suck worse than a magnetic hard drive due to the way flash media works in a device like Tivo that constantly writes - unless you buy an enterprise grade flash drive that would cost more than you car in 7.68TB capacity.
There is ZERO advantage to using an SSD in a Tivo; indeed it's a really bad idea from performance and reliability standpoints. Just stick with plain old spinning rust I just used an external power supply for the 3.5" hard drive and ran a SATA cable out the back of the bolt to the hard drive which is just sitting on the shelf out of sight behind my bolt. Works a treat.
Not to rain on your parade, but SSDs have proven to be no faster at almost anything than spinning drives in a TiVo. Apparently, they do boot a little faster from a cold start.
Because the TiVos write to the drive constantly (maintaining that 30 minute buffer for every tuner), SSDs will wear out rather quickly. And because there is no TRIM feature in the TiVo OS (AFAIK), an SSD will tend to slow down once it's had most of its areas written to once.
The only real upside is that there's no spinning drive noise and heat, although the WD RED drives I use run cool.
You might want to test that. My hard drive makes noise in sleep mode or not, whether a schedule recording is active or not.
Consumer SSDs do not have the capacity to TRIM while under load. It's a matter of channels to flash memory and having enough over provisioned space to do garbage collection. I guarantee Tivo is not going to issue TRIM commands as it deletes old content. As soon as your SSD fills up and the last of your completely empty flash cells is consumed your performance is going to go into the toilet when your SSD has only partially filled flash cells to work with and to write new content it has to read the partially full cell first, cache that, then do a slow erase operation, write back the cached content then write the new content.
Enterprise drives made for server environments cost 4-8 times what consumer drives cost for a reasons - their controllers are a lot beefier, they have a lot more paths available to write to multiple flash cells at once, and they are over-provisioned so they have plenty of space to work with irrespective of TRIM or not and to also cover for the eventual bad cells and provide dramatically longer lifetimes.
But hey - go for it. It's only money
It's probably worth it to check out my post above. Basically if you turn off the live record feature (by putting your TiVo into stand by mode) an SSD will last as long if not longer than a spinner.
However, for the BOLTs we have another reason to try this. Not for speed (although I suspect this will get rid of my many beach ball wait screens) but for solving the 2.5" dying drive problem. Many people that have upgraded from the standard 3TB WD 2.5" drive in the Bolt end up having problems. Apparently with wear on those drives.
I even started a thread on it: Success Upgrading Bolt(+) with 4TB, 5TB + 2.5" Internal Drives?
So there are potential other gains. But check out my post above MFS Reformatter (mfsr), I think it gets to some of the tradeoffs.
If you can find a drive with a SandForce controller they are better since they tend to rely on over-provisioning which works whether TRIM is there or not. Which it isn't with Tivo.
So I think the drive is an enterprise drive:
Micron 5210 ION SSD
It's made for a lot of database use, like big scale lots of read/write database use. Not sure what controller it uses. The do a comparison of the wear in this PDF: https://www.micron.com/-/media/clie...10_ssd_vs_hdd_endurance_white_paper.pdf?la=en
Although it's possible, I would be surprised if an SSD actually helped that.
When I accidentally disconnected my network cable from my Roamio a while back, it went crazy with almost every keypress generating the beach ball. My impression is that the vast majority of spinning blue beach balls are because TiVo now insists that every single little thing you do on any of their devices go through their server first, and there are times when the server you connect to will be sluggish for whatever reason, and they spin the ball waiting for it to stop being comatose.
But I haven't tried that in a while, so maybe they've fixed that issue. I just find it difficult to believe that waiting for a drive would cause the box to buffer unless all your tuners were showing 4K/UHD content, and even then...
Correction, apparently I put the 8TB drive in and not the 10TB at my last upgrade. Just confirmed the capacity as I had another issue that forced me to pull off the cover.
Any advantage to using this a a 3gb drive? I know the roamio is plug and play at that capacity, but I was wondering if there .might be some longevity gains by using it. My last 3tb drive just failed at 5years to the day.....I'd like this one to last longer if possible.
Theoretically, aligning the inode and application zones properly for 4K drives should result in slightly better performance and reduced disk writes. Compared to the amount of disk IO in the media zones (which are already properly aligned on the factory layout) it's a small change, but it can't hurt.