Making a Murderer (Netflix) - Spoilers

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by farleyruskz, Dec 20, 2015.

  1. farleyruskz

    farleyruskz Nunya

    Nov 13, 2000
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Although I tagged the thread for spoilers, I'm not going to start off including any, because I think it's really best for someone to go into this blind.

    I can't believe there isn't a thread for this already. This is one of the best documentaries I have ever seen. I binge watched the first 7 hours yesterday, and just finished up the final 3.

    I felt a roller coaster of emotions watching this. I still can't believe it is real. If you liked documentaries like The Jinx or The Staircase, this is a must watch.
  2. StacieH

    StacieH betativowho??

    Jan 2, 2009
    Between San...
    I'm part way into episode 1 and hooked. Can't wait to continue watching.
  3. VegasVic

    VegasVic Craps Player

    Nov 21, 2002
    The Craps Table
  4. farleyruskz

    farleyruskz Nunya

    Nov 13, 2000
    Pittsburgh, PA
  5. packerfan

    packerfan Elk Whisperer

    Jan 7, 2002
    When the story first broke on the local news, it really appeared that Avery was guilty. After watching all 10 episodes, it really seems like Avery was set up for the second time.
  6. packerfan

    packerfan Elk Whisperer

    Jan 7, 2002
    Here is an alternate theory taken from reddit that is quite possible.

    Please consider this only as a theory with a very critical eye and please do let me know your thoughts. However, DO NOT USE ANY OF THIS INFORMATION TO HARASS OR BADGER ANYONE INVOLVED!! I've put this together because the logical question that would need to be answered if SA is indeed innocent is "if not SA, then who?" I'm not certain of SA's innocence, but I feel that TH's family deserves a better answer than what was presented at trial.
    Big ups to u/EmilyLouiseChurch1 for finding the court records to corroborate some facts in and u/AmpLee for reaching out to the citizen.
    I've gone ahead and pulled together some additional info to support an alternate theory of the crime. It fits fairly well with the facts that were presented during the trial, but relies heavily on the claims that "the citizen" from Brian's blog post makes. However, if they are true, they present a plausible version of events that makes every bit as much sense as the nonsense to which Brendan Dassey "confessed".
    Facts and less disputed evidence from trial:
    Manitowoc County was on the hook for $36 million if they were found liable in SA's civil suit because insurers were balking on payment given the alleged misconduct of the DA and sheriff's office
    On November 2nd, a third party deleted voice messages from TH's voicemail
    On November 3rd, a sheriff's deputy calls in TH's plates with a vehicle description
    TH was killed and her body burned between 10/31 and 11/5
    TH's Rav 4 was found on SA's lot 11/5
    TH's remains were found in two or three piles, two relatively close to SA's trailer and another roughly 2,000 ft SW of the pit in the quarry though it’s unclear that they certainly belonged to TH
    TH's skull had what appeared to the forensic examiner to be 2 .22 bullet holes
    Discussion of an alternative story
    I have heard from "the citizen" in Brian's blog story, and she claims that she was his original source. I have no reason to believe or disbelieve her, but I am confident that she is the person listed in the court documents that u/EmilyLouiseChurch1 found. I will be sure to call out what I've corroborated separately (like this) from now on. She provides the following version of events somewhat consistent with what she told Brian (I can discuss privately why I’m confident this person is indeed the citizen):
    The week of October 31st 2015, the citizen’s husband at the time, now ex-, "the husband", was acting strangely, cutting the tags from her clothing and cutting her clothing apart. Their relationship became strained so she rented a place in Maribel, WI to separate. The property is about 5 miles from Avery Auto Salvage, and is located along the route Teresa would have taken to get home to St. John from SA's (I've verified that court docs for the citizen did list a location along this route):
    On the 6th, the husband was taken into custody after a dispute with the citizen after his behavior became increasingly erratic (verified with court documents). The citizen shared that after that time, her dogs kept finding bones that the citizen believed to be human, as well as a pair of underwear, and a tool kit with a mason hammer with flicks of blood on it (in a police report filed after a complaint was made by the citizen). The underwear and tools were turned into the police (acknowledged in what looks like a genuine police report by the officer recording her complaint).
    Her theory is that TH was drawn to the property because it had a "for rent" sign on it and stopped for more information, perhaps to photograph the property (the property's tax assessment lists a third party owner as of 2013 -- it appears to indeed be a rental property). The husband then killed TH by strangulation and with the mason hammer, put her body in the Rav 4, and parked the Rav 4 in the barn before burning her body on November 2nd.
    The husband was held after his arrest on November 6th until January, at which point he was released (confirmed with court documents), then re-arrested almost immediately after getting into another dispute with the citizen. His next release was on March 2nd, the day after Brandon Dassey's confession when Dassey was first arrested with the stipulation that he check in with the Sheriff's office daily (again all confirmed this with court documents). According to the citizen, the husband was held in psychiatric facilities during some of his stay with the county.
    What is not articulated above, but not difficult to guess, is how the Rav 4 and remains got onto SA's property.
    A relatively simple hypothesis: the plate query on the 3rd resulted when the sheriff's deputy found the Rav 4 along with the remains of TH's body. One or more officers worked on moving the car to SA's lot before the 5th and relocated TH's remains to their final location.
    The key was found later than the blood in the Rav 4 because the police had access to the Rav 4 earlier than SA's trailer because they had the Rav 4 before it was found, and so the blood was present before the key was found. The bullet was tampered with as the defense claims.
    Interesting developments after the husband’s release: both the citizen and the husband moved to Oregon (they appear in an Oregon newspaper), but according to the citizen, the husband was deported in 2009. At that point, the citizen moves back to Wisconsin and starts digging around to find out what happened and why the husband wasn’t arrested, etc. During this time, she gets in touch with convoluted Brian, and Brian posts her story to his blog. Shortly after Brian posts his blog on June 23rd, the out-building(s) in which the Rav 4 was allegedly hidden, and where the murder allegedly took place, were burned down. (I couldn’t confirm they were burned down, but if you find the address, check out the street view vs. the aerial view. The street view date is October 2008 and the out buildings are still there, and aerial from 2015 doesn’t show them…super creepy).
    The citizen begins having trouble with local law enforcement, culminating in her arrest for animal cruelty in 2013. She currently has a warrant out for her arrest by the Manitowoc Sheriff's department (both verified with court documents), though she since moved out of state. The citizen also produced links to Facebook profiles for the husband. Looks like he's living abroad still, though not in his native country.
    A caveat to all: this whole story is about the citizen's now ex-husband. I wouldn't accuse an ex of killing somebody no matter how it ended, but I'm not the citizen, so certainly consider the alternative story of the crime with a grain of salt. That being said, everything she does say seems to check out generally and the husband, if she is telling the truth, could be the answer to “if not SA, then who?”
    Also, a couple of questions I haven’t seen elsewhere:
    Where were the rest of TH’s keys? Who goes out with only a car key?
    I found a source that says that cremation requires 90 minutes at 1600 - 1800 C, but an outdoor fire would surely be cooler. TH’s body would have needed much longer than the 7-9 time frame given by the DA no? (
  7. DougF

    DougF Well-Known Member

    Mar 18, 2003
    North Dakota
  8. NatasNJ

    NatasNJ Bone marrow lover!

    Jan 7, 2002
    Anyone watch Season 2?
    I am on episode 9.

    It still amazes me that Dasseys confession was permitted and used. First off he was totally fed all the details that were based on any foresnic data, he should have had a lawyer/parent present, and he has 10 different stories that are all over the place yet they believe the one story that they can match up a little with foresnic data?

    Avery. This one is a tad tougher. The new lawyer is smart and based on her work I truly belive she would have gotten Avery off if she was his original lawyer. That being said all of the "planting" and such seem so extreme when combined together along with the timing and possible murder of Theresa that I just can't see these yocals pulling it off. That being said the lack of any forensics of blood at the avery household does raise a ton of questions.

    I still think Avery was involved and that Dassey was not involved. Just wow.

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