Lost - "The End" 5/23 series finale (spoilers)

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by jkeegan, May 23, 2010.

  1. May 24, 2010 #661 of 1949
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    But the sidewayverse isn't the real world. Hurley rules the island in the real world. In Hurley's world, the island never sank because Jack stopped it.
     
  2. May 24, 2010 #662 of 1949
    Roadblock

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    My problem was just with you saying not a single question was answered, clearly not true.

    It's not a matter of what you believe. The island was real, not some predeath hallucination. Re-watch the ending!

    But he was right and he took the time to show you why, to which you couldn't even admit you were wrong.

    Well that looked like a pretty bad stab wound and I don't think Jack could perform surgery on himself, so I dunno what they could have done for him. I did think when he had his arm in the falling water that maybe it was going to heal him.
     
  3. May 24, 2010 #663 of 1949
    DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

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    Loved the episode. Have read the whole thread. Tagged tons of posts I wanted to respond to, but I'm ending up deleting most of them since the response I wanted to give has already been given. However, below are a few that I still felt were relevant:

    Of course it would be nice for TV shows to have a multi-year plan before they ever start. However, that's unrealistic. That's not how TV shows work. In LOST's case, ABC president Lloyd Braun thought it would be cool to have a drama show that was a mix between Survivor and Cast Away. He commissioned Jeffrey Lieber to write it. Braun didn't love Lieber's script, so he called in JJ Abrams to do a rewrite. Abrams called in Damon Lindelof to help him. Braun loved their version of the script and greenlighted the pilot. JJ directed the pilot, but then had to leave to direct Mission Impossible 3, so Damon called Carlton Cuse (they'd worked together on Nash Bridges) and asked him to join the team. Those two became the show runners.

    So it wasn't like someone had this awesome idea and went and pitched it to the network. They made it up just to fulfill Braun's wishes for a TV pilot, and then they had to work it out from there. It's a very rare TV series when the writers can even outline the plot for a single season in advance. To expect that they had the entire show plotted out, even loosely, is extremely unrealistic.

    No, the previous five seasons were backstory for the rest of the Island story that was told in S6. Just because there was the flash sideways this season doesn't mean there wasn't also a lot that happened on the Island. All of the Island timeline from this season was built upon the stuff that happened in S1-S5. I don't see how people think that becomes irrelevant just because the characters all died eventually. Did people really expect that at the end of this fictional story, all the characters would be made immortal?

    That was for the people like me who didn't have time to watch the retrospective. It was also for people like me whose wives aren't nearly as into the show as I am, so their wives would never put up with two extra hours of recaps and interviews. I'll have to find time to watch that later, some night after she's gone to bed.
    What makes you say he had no apparent practice? As far as we were led to believe, he was quite an accomplished musician in the sidewaysverse.

    I like that analogy, but I'd add an additional piece to it. Imagine you have a year to drive from NYC to LA, but you don't have to take any specific route. However, you do know that during the journey, you have to visit in Chicago, New Orleans, Seattle, Atlanta, and the Grand Canyon. You can hit them whenever it's convenient for your trip, and theoretically, you can hit them in whatever order you want, but you have to visit these specific places before arriving in LA. What roads you take when traveling between each, and how long you take between each, is entirely up to you.

    That's how I think this show was written. They had some very loose ideas for some specific tentpole moments that they wanted to incorporate, and I believe they had a pretty good idea of where it would all end up. But the rest of the specifics were written on an episode by episode, and season by season basis. That's the only way it really works.
    So did Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley. I don't see why it's so surprising that Lapidus survived too.
    They're not imagining anything. It's one of those things that writers do, where one conversation by one group of people is a parallel to what's happening to another group of people, even though the two know nothing about each other.
    My personal opinion is that Jacob didn't know how Desmond would be used. I don't think Jacob knew about the stone "cork" and that pulling it temporarily would be the loophole needed to kill MiB. Jacob had certainly never been down in that cave, since he knew what going in there had done to his brother. I think Jacob simply knew that Desmond was important and ensured that he was available when the time came for him to be used.

    Yes, that's why the runway was breaking apart under the wheels as it taxied. However, given that it was just flying over the Island as Jack was dying in the jungle, it seems that Jack got the "cork" back in just after it took off.
    Thank you! I don't know why so many people were confused by this.
    Jacob killed hundreds of people, by bringing them to the Island as pawns in his game with MiB. For example: there were only a handful of "candidates" on Oceanic 815, so the rest of the passengers and crew were collateral damage. Same with the crew of The Black Rock. Jacob certainly wasn't a benevolent protector of the Island.
    I realize that's the explanation they used, but I don't buy it. They clearly had the original shots showing what the wall looked like when Miles walked up the stairs. They could easily have redecorated that wall to look exactly the same, had they wanted to. But it was fairly clear from the way that scene was shot and edited, that they wanted to focus on the fact that the pictures on the wall changed. Whatever that plotline was leading to was abandoned and it would be nice if they'd just admit that rather than coming up with lame excuses.
    The writers have said specifically that they knew they'd get more viewers initially by making the storyline more straightforward, and that they could then introduce the more "fantastical" elements later when people were already invested in the show. I don't think ABC had the information to advertise it as a fantasy show from the beginning, and I'm not sure they would have greenlighted the pilot had they known.
    I was expecting Charlie to call Aaron "Turniphead" after Charlie "woke up."
    This was the one moment where I came closest to crying. For me, that was the most powerful scene of the whole episode, because we knew that all Ben wanted all along was to be included in the leadership of the Island, and to be trusted and confided in by the leader, and now he was finally going to get that chance.

    What a great show. I'm much more satisfied with the finale than I expected to be. I realize there are things left unanswered, and some of them would be nice to have answers to, but I'm perfectly fine with the way it was finished.
     
  4. May 24, 2010 #664 of 1949
    Turtleboy

    Turtleboy Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    How else do you reconcile every single thing that happened in the sideways world?

    None of it was real.
     
  5. May 24, 2010 #665 of 1949
    DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

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    The Island being on the bottom of the ocean was part of the sidewaysverse, which it turned out, was not real. So for the entire season, we were headfaked into expecting that's what was going to happen, since we'd already seen it, and that was fLocke's stated goal. But in the end, it turned out that the Island on the bottom of the sea was just as much a fantasy as Jack having a teenage son or Sawyer and Miles being buddy cops.
     
  6. May 24, 2010 #666 of 1949
    Fool Me Twice

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  7. May 24, 2010 #667 of 1949
    SNJpage1

    SNJpage1 Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    23 pages must be a record on here. I read most and then skipped to write this so I dont know if some one else commented on this. I was wondering about one thing and since I deleted the past shows maybe some one could check for me. When Jacop knock his brother out the water carried him into the cave. However, when they show Jack back outside the cave the water is flowing out of the cave. That would explain how Jack got back out.
     
  8. May 24, 2010 #668 of 1949
    uncdrew

    uncdrew Annie 2.0

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    One of my other problems with the ending:

    Penny and Desmond were there. Jack obviously had a very close connection with Desmond. But Penny? Jack and Penny weren't buds... Jack didn't need Penny in that church. She was there because Desmond needed her.

    But Penny probably needed her kid. Or her dad. Or some of her close connections.

    And her close connections might have needed some of their close connections.


    The chain probably goes on to where I'd be in that church too, because someone connected to someone was connected to me. And most likely I'll need my daughters there. And they'll need their kids there. And so on...

    Perhaps I'm rambling, but I did think that immediately (because as I posted earlier, this does actually match my belief on the afterlife). The chain connects almost all of human kind. Or at least more than a few dozen people. I should probably sue Lost for stealing my ideas...



    Ok, so who was left on the island after Lapidus flew them out and our boy Jack bit it?

    Hurley
    Ben
    Desmond

    Any others still around?
    Any of Widmore's crew still around?
    Any Losties or Tailies still left?
    What about that scary dude with the beard?
     
  9. May 24, 2010 #669 of 1949
    Polcamilla

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    I took it simply as 'The Island is in a state in the Sideways 'verse where it in no possible way can influence the lives of the central characters'.
     
  10. May 24, 2010 #670 of 1949
    uncdrew

    uncdrew Annie 2.0

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    For a TV show, perhaps.

    But we've gone way longer on far less (seemingly) interesting topics. :p
     
  11. May 24, 2010 #671 of 1949
    Mike Wells

    Mike Wells 24601

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    Ah, yes, I guess you are right. I figured there was a reason for showing us that, other than just one big red herring. But I guess there isn't any reason to think that events in the sideways would have anything to do with the live events.
     
  12. May 24, 2010 #672 of 1949
    gossamer88

    gossamer88 UHDTV Snob

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    Is this who you're referring to?
    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Tom
     
  13. May 24, 2010 #673 of 1949
    Polcamilla

    Polcamilla -b±√(b^2 - 4ac)/2a

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    I was talking with some friends about this (specifically, about Aaron---Claire and Kate needed him and could not have progressed without him, but he obviously would've needed other people who weren't there and knew him as a grown-up, not a baby).

    I think it's the one case where the concept they're communicating doesn't quite match up with what they were able to show on television.

    I also believe that we are only redeemed with our loved ones and that this group salvation means that ultimately, all our differing connections form a great web of humanity all progressing together (more or less). Obviously, that couldn't be accurately portrayed in a single church in six seasons of television, so they gave us a stick-figure version to communicate the general idea. :D
     
  14. May 24, 2010 #674 of 1949
    uncdrew

    uncdrew Annie 2.0

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  15. May 24, 2010 #675 of 1949
    uncdrew

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    I'll accept it.

    Other possible answers included:

    Every individual gets there own "entrance to heaven" and if you were popular and well liked, you have to attend a ton of these events.

    The afterlife is not real

    You smell funny
     
  16. May 24, 2010 #676 of 1949
    Fool Me Twice

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    If only there was some database with all known LOST information, and a conveniently supplied link to that specific entry....;)
     
  17. May 24, 2010 #677 of 1949
    Polcamilla

    Polcamilla -b±√(b^2 - 4ac)/2a

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    [SHANNON]

    :rolleyes:

    Do I *have* to be saved with him? He smells funny.

    [/SHANNON]
     
  18. May 24, 2010 #678 of 1949
    gossamer88

    gossamer88 UHDTV Snob

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    From Lostepia:
    Sawyer, however, shot and killed Tom anyway. Sawyer stated, "That's for takin' the kid off the raft," (i.e. the kidnapping of Walt). When questioned by Hurley, Sawyer said he didn't believe that Tom's declaration of surrender was genuine.
     
  19. May 24, 2010 #679 of 1949
    desulliv

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    +1. That was a guffaw out-loud moment.
     
  20. May 24, 2010 #680 of 1949
    BeanMeScot

    BeanMeScot Sci-Fi Junkie

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    I've started to explain my viewpoint on this a couple of times and gave up but a couple of people have touched on something similar. Even though we "saw" Aaron as a baby doesn't mean that's really what he was. We were looking at "souls". The filmaker is making a judgement on how to project what they look like to us. Just because we see him as a baby doesn't mean he wasn't also there as an adult. The same way that time had no meaning there, neither did what they looked like. To Jack, they looked like they did on the island. To each other, the ones that were together long after the island (those that were married, for example), they might have looked different. It's how I have rationalized it, anyway. :)
     

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