Lost "Follow the Leader" 5/6/2009 spoilers

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by jkeegan, May 6, 2009.

  1. May 8, 2009 #141 of 204
    PKurmas

    PKurmas Member

    64
    0
    Apr 24, 2001
    Savannah GA

    Advertisements

    It couldn't be Penny. When Widmore was voted off the island part of the explanation was that he'd fathered a child off the island.

    But I agree... Daniel's age keeps bothering me. I'd believe the whole prodigy thing if it weren't for the beard. That and if he was really so young they'd have been better casting a teenager in the part. I assumed he was in his early 20s, meaning little Daniel is running around the tents somewhere or off in England at a boarding school. And, of course, the latter begs the question where they'd get the money.
     
  2. May 8, 2009 #142 of 204
    DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

    59,067
    4,499
    Apr 16, 2003
    Arizona
    Except that we don't know when that happened in the timeline, except that it appeared to be after the Purge, because the Others were in Dharmaville. According to Lostpedia, the Purge was in 1992, IIRC. So Widmore could have fathered Penny off the Island at some other time, either before or after Daniel.
     
  3. May 8, 2009 #143 of 204
    aindik

    aindik Well-Known Member

    35,117
    78
    Jan 23, 2002
    Philadelphia...
    It's easy to get money when you know people from the future.

    Like Sawyer said. "We'll buy Microsoft. We'll bet the Cowboys in the '78 Superbowl."
     
  4. May 8, 2009 #144 of 204
    PKurmas

    PKurmas Member

    64
    0
    Apr 24, 2001
    Savannah GA
    Certainly... but just because he was ejected after the Purge doesn't mean he wasn't going off island, making money & making babies before then. There hasn't been a single shred of evidence that I've seen to suggest that Penny was born on the island. The simplest possible explanation is that she's the one mentioned when Widmore was booted.
     
  5. May 8, 2009 #145 of 204
    AeneaGames

    AeneaGames Member

    331
    0
    May 2, 2009

    Advertisements

    Same here, I had the idea he meant he is going to kill the idea of Jacob...
     
  6. May 8, 2009 #146 of 204
    Philosofy

    Philosofy Super Duper Member

    7,735
    427
    Feb 21, 2000
    Valparaiso,...
    I think Widmore got his startup money from the Black Rock.
     
  7. May 8, 2009 #147 of 204
    dianebrat

    dianebrat wait.. I did what? TCF Club

    13,557
    2,632
    Jul 6, 2002
    boston'ish
    We all saw the same episode, but we've taken such different things from it.
    I'm taking John's comment that he's figured out Jacob is trapped, and the gray ash they spread to summon him keeps him from being able to go to where ever he's supposed to be going. That's why Locke heard him say 'help me" by "killing him" Locke is setting him free to move to the next plane of existence.

    or I could be totally and completely off-base.. :D
     
  8. May 9, 2009 #148 of 204
    mrdazzo7

    mrdazzo7 Well-Known Member

    5,618
    246
    Jan 8, 2006
    This will always be the one major flaw for the show in my opinion (aside from this time travel season :))... They've set up a billion mysteries with no real chance to pay them off...even stuff they didn't intentionally setup but fans decided they had to know ie, the numbers. People are BEGGING for a explanation for "why" the numbers are cursed. What could the writer's possibly come up with to explain that? So they came up with the idea of the Valenzetti equation which, from what I know, was designed to predict the end of the world. Ok, fine. Done. But people are still like "What are the numbers??"... Then we see that they're the serial number on the hatch... I don't get what else they can possibly explain about them.

    Other stuff too like "what is the island?" or "why doesn't hurley lose weight?"
    These are things that can't be answered, nor do they really matter.

    The thing they did drop the ball on is Libby, but that's not entirely their fault, since the actress was unable to come back for more episodes. Which I find weird because she did have time to come back for her cameo in Michael's episode last season. Why introduce a mystery like that without a specific plan in place to pay it off?

    I don't know, I like writing in my spare time and I would never introduce something I didn't plan on paying off, I don't see the point. Any writer can just be like "ok, this plume of smoke scans people's memories then decides if they live or die", but explaining that is much harder. Kind of their job though.

    I've actually always felt bad for them because their whole inception of this show was originally CHARACTERS stranded on an island dealing with mysterious things...it was all about the people. But then fans got WAY more attached to the STORY--the plot, the mysteries, the numbers, the monster, the island, etc. So anytime the writers do anything character driven, they get murdered for delivering horrible filler. I'm sure they're not complaining, but I can see how if setting out to do one thing but being kind of forced into something else could be annoying. Fans are almost never happy.
     
  9. May 9, 2009 #149 of 204
    Bryanmc

    Bryanmc I'm normal.

    40,820
    299
    Sep 5, 2000
    Richardson,...
    Excellent, excellent reference.

    :up:
     
  10. May 9, 2009 #150 of 204
    danterner

    danterner Not it!

    10,629
    20
    Mar 4, 2005
    Greenacres, FL
    I agree, and meant to say something about that. :up:

    And kudos for even managing to make a "black rock" reference work there. And now that this series is all about time travel, it's especially apt. Awesome, all around. It's been 30 years since I've seen Time Bandits, but that scene really scarred me as a child and I still recall it vividly.
     
  11. May 9, 2009 #151 of 204
    latrobe7

    latrobe7 Fine for real TCF Club

    5,844
    117
    May 1, 2005
    Orange...
    The official podcast is available a little early from DarkUFO. Lindelof and Cuse address a couple of my favorite questions; the compass and the comic-con video with Faraday and Chang.
    There is in depth discussion of the compass starting about 10:10 into the podcast; a couple of bottom-line quotes:

    Lindelof: "What we have done with the compass is absolutely intentional in terms of the, sort of, broader themes of the show...

    ...it is purposely perplexing ...but it also, it has no origin... the fact of the matter is Alpert holds onto it for 50 years... it is in a mobius loop; an infinite loop."

    Cuse: "The idea that it is in a mobius loop is a very intentional motif that we are executing here...

    ...the fact that the compass magically exists between these two characters, we think is just a cool piece of, sort of, mystery and magic."

    After the compass, they discuss the comic-con video, starting around 13:10.

    It was Faraday in the video with Chang; but the storyline changed between comic-con and the season and the branch with Faraday making the film got dropped. They also reiterated that only what happens on the show itself is canon; so basically it's a "whoopsie".

    There is also a pretty funny joke about who/what Jacob is. :p
     
  12. May 9, 2009 #152 of 204
    stellie93

    stellie93 Well-Known Member

    4,135
    278
    Feb 25, 2006
    When Richard is working on his ship-in-a-bottle, he's wearing glasses. Have we seen them before? Is he possibly aging? Usually needing glasses for close work happens in your 40's.

    It looks like Radzinski is going to be the guy who insists on drilling, which may explain why he spends the rest of his life in the hatch pressing the button. ;)

    John told Sun that Jacob could "absolutely" tell them how to get Jin and the others back. Then he told Ben that had nothing to do with finding Jacob. Is it required to be a bare faced liar to lead these Others?

    I thought before you needed to be sedated to travel in and out on the sub? What happened to that? Are they just tougher now?

    If detonating the bomb is what always happened, then old Eloise in LA remembers doing it and survived somehow, and purposely sent Jack back to make sure it happened. If it's a new timeline, and she doesn't survive, and she is pregnant with Daniel......then he never exists. I never got the idea at all that she was pregnant, probably because I had already figured that Daniel must be a small boy at this time. :confused:
     
  13. May 9, 2009 #153 of 204
    Fool Me Twice

    Fool Me Twice >>>>>>

    3,478
    0
    Jul 6, 2004
    Though killing Jacob may be the primary reason John is going to see him, getting the other Losties back may be an effect of killing him, or John might gain the knowledge of how to retrieve them when he confronts Jacob. So, it's not necessarily a lie. He might get the other Losties back, but "That's not WHY" he's going to see Jacob. Also, it must have been fun for John to phrase it that way, just to play with Ben's mind some more; he's really enjoying his revenge.


    I wonder if we're getting to the point of Walt's bad dream about Locke, where he's on a beach surrounded by people who want to hurt him.
     
  14. May 9, 2009 #154 of 204
    DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

    59,067
    4,499
    Apr 16, 2003
    Arizona
    When Eloise told Charles that she was taking Jack and Sayid to the bomb, he said something to the effect of "Are you sure you should do this with your condition?" and then he put his hand on her belly. I think that's a pretty clear telegraph.
     
  15. astrohip

    astrohip Well-Known Raconteur TCF Club

    15,469
    5,269
    Jan 6, 2003
    Houston/Bren...
    I won't dissect your entire post, but I disagree with almost every part of it, and I would venture a guess (IMHO) so do most fans, casual or serious. We all want answers, but I don't need to know why everything happened, and neither does the casual fan. We just want to see where this goes.

    Just to pick one part of your post (my red), I love it when we get "character driven" stories. And I know from talking to a couple of coworkers who definitely fall into the casual viewer cat, they love it too. As much as they love the weird storyline we are on.

    You've mentioned this in a couple of posts now, how you think the writers' inability to answer everything will be the show's downfall. You could be right; maybe when May 2010 rolls around, we're all gonna be "wow, I can't believe I wasted six years on this sh*t".

    But I doubt it. :D
     
  16. gchance

    gchance 4 8 15 16 23 42

    13,181
    230
    Dec 6, 2002
    Olivehurst, CA
    Now is a good time to mention something that really hasn't been talked about much in these threads.

    Let's say you decide to write a novel. You get 3/4 of the way through and realize that a major event in your novel that was initiated by one character (let's call him Hurley) would be much better served being initiated by a different character (let's call him Sawyer). Heck, let's call it "pushing the history eraser button".

    So you go back through the novel and change it so the history eraser button was pressed by Sawyer, and change every other reference back to the event. In going through the novel, you find that there's one particular conversation where this other character, Kate, is talking to Hurley, saying gee, when you pushed that button, you killed Sawyer...

    But wait! Sawyer pushed the button, Sawyer's alive. So then you go back through and make all sorts of other changes.

    When the book's complete and edited, the reader has no clue that the button was originally pressed by Hurley, nor do they know that Sawyer died. All they know is Sawyer pushed the button, and Hurley may or may not have died, depending on what you decided to do. But as far as the reader's concerned, they never saw the drafts.

    Change it from a novel to a tv show...

    You get 3/4 into the thing. Let's say you're in season 5, and the show will end in season 6. Before the series ever aired, you wrote a decent-length outline (20, 30, or more pages) that talks about these characters and where you want them to be. Not specifics, like what happens in the 3rd episode of season 4, but general events such as this needs to happen before this other thing can happen, so that BIG EVENT can happen.

    The thing is, BIG EVENT was originally intended for a character that you'd originally planned to be alive at this point, but the actor playing that character got drunk one night and plowed into a telephone pole, got a DUI, and is now serving jail time.

    How do you get yourself out of this situation? Good question. If you'd been writing a novel, the reader never would have known you made changes, but since you're doing a TV series, they see it as you're writing it. There's no way to just go back for another draft. You have to take what you've already written, and figure out how to shove a wedge in there to make it all work.

    Things might work out, they might not, and you might just have to go WHOOPS and carry on with life.

    Lost is a TV series, not a novel. Drafts can't happen when 5 seasons have already aired.

    Greg
     
  17. smak

    smak TV MA SLV

    27,219
    2,891
    Feb 11, 2000
    NoHo, CA USA
    I doubt it too.

    And if all questions were answered much much faster, and no new questions had risen when those questions were answered, wouldn't the show have ended about 3 1/2 season ago?

    -smak-
     
  18. mrdazzo7

    mrdazzo7 Well-Known Member

    5,618
    246
    Jan 8, 2006

    I think my post was misunderstood. For the most part, I was defending the writers against people who want every single molecule answered. IE, people are still whining about "the numbers" when the show/writers have explained them as best they could. Also, questions like "What is the Island?" are unanswerable for the most part. I was also defending them in the sense that "people" (not me) flip out every time they do a character-focused episode. I'm not clear which part of this statement you disagreed with?

    I'm also not sure how anyone can disagree that they dropped the ball on Libby, because that fact is indisputable. I know they had a plan but the actress couldn't come back or something, but bottom line, it was a mystery that they didn't/can't pay off. That's all I'm saying.

    I don't need every single thing answered, but that doesn't mean I don't want anything answer. Yes, I'll concede that obviously we have to wait until the series is over before we condemn them for not resolving stuff. Totally agree. But that doesn't mean stuff isn't up for discussion. I love the show as much as anyone else and as a devoted fan, I'm allowed to discuss the good and the bad. I don't see what's wrong with that. Believe me, on a professional level I respect the hell out of the writers, but they've made mistakes, so what? Why is talking about those mistakes such a bad, unimagineable thing?

    I feel like this is turning into one of those board where you're only allowed to say 100% glowing, positive things about the show. :)
     
  19. Figaro

    Figaro El Caganer

    7,835
    0
    Nov 9, 2003
    Somwhere in...
    Why in the world can't they answer "What is the Island?" If they don't know what the island is then WTF? All this talk of character driven? Up until they flicked a switch this season, most of these characters have stayed pretty much the same, and I am not just referring to Hurley being fat.

    Kate is still the same selfish whiny *****. Jack is still a dick, except this season he "believes", Sayid still hates himself for what he does, Locke threw the decisive switch, and Sawyer turned off his bad boy switch. Not much really there.

    This show has become all about the mythos of the island. If they don't explain the bulk of it then it will be a failure. Fine, Libby doesn't want to come back, I can live with that. But these questions must be answered:

    What is the island?
    Why doesn't Richard age?
    Smokey?
    The magic time wheel?
    Jacob?
    Others can no longer breed?
    Statue? (toes)
    Claire, Christian, Walt, Alex, Ecko's brother etc.?
     
  20. tiams

    tiams New Member

    2,362
    0
    Apr 19, 2004
    Radzinsky is all about some maps! When he was interrogating Sawyer he insisted he draw him a map of where the Others where. He is also the one who drew the map on the blast door in invisible ink. BTW, I still want to know why that map needed to be secret and only accessible when the blast door is down.
     

Share This Page

spam firewall

Advertisements