Lost "Follow the Leader" 5/6/2009 spoilers

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by jkeegan, May 6, 2009.

  1. May 7, 2009 #41 of 204
    eMarkM

    eMarkM New Member

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    It's been speculated for a long time that Ben has faked his knowledge of Jacob and has been a "false" leader and this episode more or less confirmed it. Ben freaked when John could hear Jacob and subsequently shot him. Both Ben and Richard we're completely perplexed by the seemingly prescient Locke. This is the first time we've seen Richard really confused and he showed it throughout the episode. I know I'm not the only one loving the new all-knowing Locke and his lap dog Ben. Great scenes between them.

    The big shocker at the end with Locke wanting to kill Jacob. Could this be a mercy killing? All we know of Jacob is his saying "help me" to John. Does this mean he wants to die? I don't think John meant malice by saying he wants to kill Jacob, I think somehow Jacob wants to die, to be released and the new all-knowing Locke knows it. Released from what we don't know, next to nothing is known about Jacob. Apparently to most of the island inhabitants, too. I think we may get a bomb of an answer to the Jacob Question in the finale.

    Speaking of bombs, not so sure about where the hydrogen bomb line is going. I agree with previous posters in Lost threads that it would be an old Sci-Fi cliche if this all comes down to "changing the future". I really like the "what happened, happened" rules. I really hope there's a twist here we don't see coming.
     
  2. May 7, 2009 #42 of 204
    Fool Me Twice

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    Richard doesn't seem to care much for the new Locke, does he? And he was as shocked as Ben that Locke was once dead, but now... isn't. His little aside to Ben about Locke being a problem seemed sinister and conspiritorial. Ben seemed to back him up, but then reported the conversation to Locke--helping him just as he promised Smokey he would. Ben may end up being a Gollum figure in this story.

    I think of him (I'm pretty sure this has been mentioned by others) as something like the Occupant in "The Room". Or, perhaps he is somehow, if not the source of the island's power, a method of harnessing or communing with it. A sad figure, something like the child in "Those who walk away from Omelas".
     
  3. May 7, 2009 #43 of 204
    Big_Daddy

    Big_Daddy Purveyor of Idiocy

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    Assuming Jack and co. DO detonate the bomb and Farraday's plan would work, they might just disappear which Richard could interpret as dying in a blast.

    Interestingly, if Sawyer/Kate/Juliet DO return the sub to the dock, it's also possible that by bringing all those people back to the island (including Li'l Miles and Li'l Charlotte) and if they are killed at the island, that may have the unintended effect of changing the future as at least 2 of the freighter people wouldn't be around.

    I'm also unsure of Locke's motivation to off Jacob. Apparently he knows something we don't. In any case, it'd be nice to meet the guy.
     
  4. May 7, 2009 #44 of 204
    Rinkdog

    Rinkdog New Member

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    This is my thinking also, the bomb detonation would then be known as the incident. Whatever happens, I am sure the end of next weeks episode will be another game changer leaving us with no idea where this is going.
     
  5. May 7, 2009 #45 of 204
    Steveknj

    Steveknj Lost in New Joisey TCF Club

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    Nobody else had the feeling that Locke is going to expose Jacob as a fake? My whole feeling, based on his speech to the Others was that he was essentially telling them there IS no Jacob, and they've been duped. That is why he's bringing them along and making sure that Ben and Richard come along so he could prove it. That whole thing about "you all have been taking orders from someone named Jacob" gave me that feeling. Plus Richard saying to Ben that Locke is going to be trouble. My theory is that Ben and Richard have been holding the mystical Jacob over the Others' heads as a way to maintain the power structure. I also think that when Locke gets to Jacob's cabin, they are going to try and kill Locke. Not sure where the whole Help Me falls into this, but it could have something to do with time travel, or something unexplained yet.
     
  6. May 7, 2009 #46 of 204
    Steveknj

    Steveknj Lost in New Joisey TCF Club

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    Also, wouldn't the detonation of an H-Bomb set off world wide triggers? I think a detonation like that could be monitored. My theory is this bomb will never go off, but the electronic pulse well be unleashed.
     
  7. May 7, 2009 #47 of 204
    BitbyBlit

    BitbyBlit .

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    People keep saying this, but I don't see why it's cliche to pick one time travel option over the other. There are only two possibilities: events can be changed or they can't. Both have been covered in numerous time travel stories. And, more generally than that, stories have been told involving the fate of characters being predestined as well as them being able to change it.

    "What happened, happened" is not an original concept, unique only to Lost. Lost has a unique story, but that uniqueness is not dependent on what time travel option they ultimately decide to go with. Now, if they hit the Big Reset Button at the end of the entire series, I agree that would be disappointing. (And it's something they claimed at the beginning that they would not do.) But that's because all of the characters' actions would be cheapened, not even having an effect on their own imaginary world. I wouldn't like that even if this was the first story to ever have a complete reset at the end.

    And we might not ever find out whether or not events could be changed. We now have characters in a disagreement over whether or not events should be changed. If events ultimately end up not being changed, we might not know whether it was because they couldn't be changed or because those that didn't want them to be changed won the battle to ensure that things didn't.
     
  8. May 7, 2009 #48 of 204
    teknikel

    teknikel Member

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    I have never seen nor read the "Rings" but I have an idea about which you write. I have no idea about these other references.

    I like this.
     
  9. May 7, 2009 #49 of 204
    jlb

    jlb Go Pats!

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    What about the theory that we all had at one point that John is Jacob.

    Let's look at it this way.....we have time travell going on. Weird energy sources. Etc. Perhaps the detonation of the bomb opens a little ripple in the space time contiuum and allows John to speak to himself/the island. Maybe John saying "I am going to Kill Jacob" is just a way of saying he wants to go close that ripple somehow. Maybe to him the only way is to try and kill himself.

    Ok....wacko idea.....

    I just love this show.
     
  10. May 7, 2009 #50 of 204
    jkeegan

    jkeegan Active Member

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    7. Is it even possible to kill that someone?

    8. Is that someone already dead?

    9. Will doing so be the cause of things we know to have happened in the past?
     
  11. May 7, 2009 #51 of 204
    Fool Me Twice

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    Not wacko at all. There's nothing so far to contradict it, anyway. I'm not sure why John would so strongly dislike flashlights. OTOH, he never approved of Ben letting the Others use the Dharma housing and technology, so maybe.

    Oh, well in "The Room"
    "The Occupant" is just a man who gets trapped in a mysterious room that can only be reached with a certain magic key, and even once there he can't be seen. At the end of the series, the Occupant asks a man to kill him, thereby releasing him from the room. Neither one knows if the one doing the killing would then become the new Occupant.

    In "Omelas"
    The child is just a normal child that is locked alone in a small windowless room, neglected and unloved for it's whole life. Because of this horrible act, the city of Omelas is a perfect utopia. It's not explained why. Most people decide that the sacrifice of the child is worth all the good it brings. A few disagree, and walk away from Omelas.
     
  12. May 7, 2009 #52 of 204
    BitbyBlit

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    Locke asked Richard if he still had the compass he gave him and they didn't show another compass, so the question is, did Richard give past Locke the compass that Locke gave him? If so, I'm not sure what meaning the compass would have had to past Richard. But then again, Richard didn't know what he was going to do until Locke told him at the last minute, so he might have simply been saying what was necessary to get past Locke to give past him the compass.

    Perhaps the compass is a guage for how many "iterations" have happened in the timeline. Or maybe the compass exists beyond time, and is, like Richard, an imperishable fixture.
     
  13. May 7, 2009 #53 of 204
    Fish Man

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    An interesting theory. I do think it's something like that.

    Either 1) There is no Jacob, in which case "killing" him is metaphorical. He's going to "kill" the lie that he exists, or 2) Locke is convinced that Jacob is "bad" and following him is bad for the Others. He believes that by bringing everyone along, the "badness" will be exposed.

    In either case, if Locke successfully convinces the Others that Jacob either doesn't exist, or is "bad", the Other's will almost surely turn on Ben and Richard, for having led them down the "wrong path" (by either taking Jacob's bad advice or lying to them about his very existence) for many years. This makes it strange that Locke "tipped his hand" to Ben, in telling Ben that he plans to kill Jacob. Surely this will cause Ben and Richard to start scheming to stop Locke. Does Locke believe that he's invulnerable? If so, is he right? I guess resurrecting from the dead would make a person feel a little God-like!
     
  14. May 7, 2009 #54 of 204
    jeff125va

    jeff125va New Member

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    I haven't been able to follow these threads for the last few weeks, so I apologize if it's been discussed, but have we seen Ben's little friend Annie at all during these 1970's scenes? It was made to seem that she was so influential, yet (to my knowledge) we haven't seen her since that one episode.
     
  15. May 7, 2009 #55 of 204
    jeff125va

    jeff125va New Member

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    Is this perhaps what Daniel means whenever he talks about "destroying" the energy? Because every time he says this, my 13-year-old son brings up the law of conservation of energy.
     
  16. May 7, 2009 #56 of 204
    BitbyBlit

    BitbyBlit .

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    Code:
    10. ------> John ------>
                            \
                            |
                            /
        <----- Jacob <------
    
        --------------------|
    
               Do John and Jacob "kill" each other?
    
     
  17. May 7, 2009 #57 of 204
    philw1776

    philw1776 Active Member

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    My take...IF the bomb is detonated it will not have the effects we expect from real world H bombs because of the strange energy source under the island. I still contend that this island energy is 'negative' energy to be offset by the H bomb regular energy we're familiar with. Faraday was not trying to immolate everyone in an H bomb blast, but was trying to counteract the island's energy which had something to do with The Incident. I believe that The Incident was/will be a side effect of these actions. Now, whether 'What Happened, Happened' with regard to The Incident occurs or something else 'happens' this time...it's up to the writers who have rarely been predictable.
     
  18. May 7, 2009 #58 of 204
    philw1776

    philw1776 Active Member

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    I think so. Good for your son. The concept of negative energy is speculative physics, right up the sci-fi alley.
     
  19. May 7, 2009 #59 of 204
    hefe

    hefe Rebus Philbin

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    Should be a real Fork in the Outlet!
     
  20. May 7, 2009 #60 of 204
    Magister

    Magister Fat, Dumb and Happy

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    I think the Compass is just a way to prove to Richard that John does have a special relationship to the island. Richard was extremely surprised that John was able to 'talk' to the island.
     

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