Looks like Best Buy is dumping TiVo

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by dmk1974, Jun 12, 2020.

  1. wizwor

    wizwor Active Member

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    Please explain this. You mean watching Netflix on an SD set or HD audio?
    Until they fold. It's a rare small company that can capture and hold a niche. If there is some money to be made, google or some other giant will assimilate the innovator.
    I just put three SD tuners on my network...again. I have a Lifetime Plex Pass and 40t of storage, but have never warmed up to Plex. Hoping third (or is it sixth?) time's a charm. All ATSC 1.0. Given the pathetic transition following the reverse auction and repack, I have no confidence that we will see anything meaningful in 4k anytime soon.
     
  2. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    When my Dad first got an HDTV and an HD DVR, the first time I visited he had them set to the SD channels...he didn't realize that higher up in the channel list there were HD channels. And I guess the upscaling was enough of an improvement over his old (SD) setup that he didn't notice anything amiss.

    Granted, this was a good 15 years ago...
     
  3. wizwor

    wizwor Active Member

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    Oh, yeah. I've seen that. Adjusted favorites. Don't think we are talking millions, though. It surprises me that you can still buy digital to analog converters. I can't imagine someone hanging on to a CRT long enough for a converter to fail. Maybe people cutting the cord who still has a CRT or two?

    I have to admit I recycled my last CRT last summer. It was a Sony Wega 36" tube with a Wii in tow. Also had a converter (still sitting on the shelf) attached and, at one point, we were using a DTVPal DVR as a converter.
     
  4. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Five of our local broadcasters here in Nashville (our affiliates for ABC, CBS, Fox, The CW and My Network TV) will begin broadcasting in ATSC 3.0 (via two different towers/stations) this Tuesday. Pretty sure they're just going to simulcast the same content they carry on their 1.0 feeds, although on 3.0 the encoding will be in HEVC and presumably less compressed, with better picture quality. Pretty sure the 720p channels will still be in 720p on 3.0 though. Not sure if the lone 1080i channel (our local CBS) will be encoded at 1080p on 3.0 or if they'll just keep it interlaced at 1080i.

    I haven't ordered the HDHomeRun 3.0 tuner though. Waiting awhile to see how this plays out. Given the relatively small amount that I watch/record OTA any more, I don't know that it's worth my while to spend money on 3.0 tuners.

    Anyhow, I don't expect the major networks to EVER offer anything better to their local affiliates for broadcast on ATSC 3.0 than what they offer their streaming platforms. Remember, ABC is a part of Disney, which owns Hulu. CBS All Access is obviously the streaming platform associated with the CBS network. NBC is owned by Comcast, which has Peacock as their own streaming service. So while we will likely see some of all of those networks begin producing content in 4K and/or HDR, I expect that they'll put those premium formats on their own streaming services at the same time, or even before, they begin offering them to local affiliates for free OTA distribution.
     
  5. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    The networks plan to have 1080P with HDR. Any UHD is only planned for special events.

    Sent from my Galaxy S10
     
  6. thyname

    thyname Well-Known Member

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    4K HDR is possible with ATSC 3.0?
     
  7. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    Yes. They use HEVC encoding and HLG HDR. The problem is UHD will take up a lot of bandwidth. So they will mostly do 1080P hdr with UHD HDR reserved for special things. At least that is what I've been reading is their plan. Because they still want to have a bunch if sub-channels. And ATSC 3.0 will allow them to have even more.

    Sent from my Galaxy S10
     
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  8. Diana Collins

    Diana Collins Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    And charge viewers for them.
     
  9. jonw747

    jonw747 Active Member

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    I mean people buying/renting HD equipment, but only configuring it for SD or using the same old SD connection (like composite or s-video). Of course that's getting harder and harder to do as the old interfaces are phased-out, but don't buy something new until the something old breaks.

    I get your concerns with ATSC 3, but my hope is more and more programming will trickle in over time.
     
  10. jonw747

    jonw747 Active Member

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    Live Sports will likely get the ball rolling. Even the HD transition with the mandate powering it took time. PBS was a pioneer then, and hopefully will be again and as for the Networks ... well ... they'll follow the money. So, it's just a matter of streaming subscriptions .vs. advertising $$$.
     
  11. jonw747

    jonw747 Active Member

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    1080P+HDR will look great on my 65" OLED from 8+ feet ... if they don't bit-starve it.

    I wonder if ABC/ESPN and FOX would finally transition away from 720p given the option of 1080p60? That would make for a very nice upgrade assuming they don't cheat and just upscale.
     
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  12. wizwor

    wizwor Active Member

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    Probably not a lot of people doing this. Significantly less expensive to buy/rent SD equipment. I would be interested to see some metrics.
    Over time or over how much time is the key. I just don't think broadcasters think cord cutters are worth much investment.
     
  13. jonw747

    jonw747 Active Member

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    In the past, Broadcast fed the chain (what shows end up on cable, satellite, and streaming). It may continue to do so.
     
  14. mattyro7878

    mattyro7878 Well-Known Member

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    The last time I was truly impressed was when I went from a 1080i flat screen to one of the first 1080p sets from Samsung. Of course back then the signal wasnt as compressed and bit-starved. Now I think I take the incredible 4k stream as well as 1080p from Blu Ray and the occasional UHD Blu Ray for granted. Getting jaded as time goes by. I have to admit there are times I say to myself "damn, that looks good". Xfinity is the least likely to wow me.
     
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  15. jonw747

    jonw747 Active Member

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    With Xfinity converting everything to 720p, OTA 1080p60 may be a nice option for those programs which can be recorded OTA. I'm not ready to just switch to Plex as my DVR, but I don't mind using it to supplement what I record with my TiVo or watch via streaming services.
     
  16. wizwor

    wizwor Active Member

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    In the past, there were few other sources of programming. Now we are seeing original programming coming from streaming services, premium services, and even YouTube. That's not really the point, though. HDTV was a huge improvement over SD and if you did not get a new television or a converter, you had no broadcast television at all. For most people, 4K is not so great an improvement and, for at least five years, ATSC 1.0 will be mostly undiminished. Broadcasters will have to look out past those five years for substantial subscription (aka advertiser $). Even then, pulling the plug on ATSC 1.0 likely will lose viewers.
     
  17. jonw747

    jonw747 Active Member

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    And the ramp up for HDTV was still slow. What it comes down to is either the content providers, networks, and broadcasters are on board with the 4K transition or they're not. I suspect the answer is easy enough for the content creators - they will gladly use a 4K/HDR workflow (if not better) as soon as they can afford it.

    One big difference, though, is that 4K televisions are already in homes well ahead of the broadcast transition. They can't tune ATSC 3 yet, but it's coming and the broadcasters making the transition will help kickstart the cable, satellite, and streaming video providers.

    Maybe even TiVo ?!?!

    Not sure what they'll do, but adding a means to record from a HDHomeRun would be simple enough if they can't be bothered to make a DVR with an ATSC 3 tuner.
     
  18. wizwor

    wizwor Active Member

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    You cannot wave a magic wand and have them all tune ATSC 3.0. The driver behind ATSC 3.0 must be the consumer and I'm not sure this is something that will win them over.
     
  19. jonw747

    jonw747 Active Member

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    The HD rollout took a long time. So, if you're willing to look at this in similar 2/5/10/15 year chunks, I think we'll see clear and steady progress as long as the major networks and major TV manufacturers do not flat out reject it. The broadcasters sure won't because ATSC 3 technology benefits them greatly regardless of whether they choose to take advantage of 4K.

    And certainly don't get hung up on tuners. I mean, they are going to happen, but lots of people watch network TV without tuners. My feeling is just that we're not going to see more 4K or even 1080p60 w/HDR via cable/satellite and streaming until we see more of it on the broadcast side. For whatever reason, the tail isn't mature enough yet to wag the dog.
     
  20. ncbill

    ncbill Active Member TCF Club

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    Money, money, money...many stations here had to change out antennas for the repack, plus COVID has killed revenues...my local PBS station lost their main transmitter, backup operates only at ~1/4 power, but apparently they can't afford to replace it right now.

    ATSC 3.0 is coming to my (secondary or tertiary) market, but much more slowly than originally anticipated.
     

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