Looks like Best Buy is dumping TiVo

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by dmk1974, Jun 12, 2020.

  1. jonw747

    jonw747 Active Member

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    I just wish TiVo would cater more strongly to those of us who value the things that make TiVo special ... like the ability to copy programs from machine to machine, or to upgrade the capacity. There are pain points for DVR owners, like losing all their recordings during an upgrade or when a DVR needs to be replaced, or running out of space - or just having to pay a monthly fee. TiVo has some advantages in these areas, and they could do even more.

    But frankly, I've skipped the entire Bolt and Edge line primarily due to compromises in the design like the 2.5" drive as well as the lack of recordable 4K/HDR programming. Well, we're almost there with ATSC 3.0 happening this year and cable companies experimenting with 4K.

    I guess it's hard to tell the bean counters in a company to invest in the installed base, but often for a company like TiVo the best path for growth is by continuing to keep that installed base happy rather than throwing out new designs that make nobody happy. This is being tested again with the Stream 4K. If it had Mini-capability baked in at launch, it would have enhanced the whole eco-system and bought a whole lot more patience from existing customers excited to try out cheaper/smaller DVR extender with much more capable streaming options.
     
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  2. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    I had a really good idea for an app I tried to develop a few years back. The idea was to have a wizard like app that ran on your phone that would easily copy all your settings, SPs and recordings to a new TiVo to make the transition as easy as possible. Problem is that such an app would require a certificate for TiVo's mind/RPC server and after months of trying, and talking to more than a half dozen different people, I couldn’t find anyone at the company who knew how to do that. One TiVo employee even admitted to me that the guy who setup and ran the developer program left after the Rovi merger and that they didn’t think anyone took over after he left. So essentially there was no one left at the company who even knew how to issue a certificate for the server.
     
  3. tommiet

    tommiet Active Member

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    Who said you had to keep your cable company? That's your choice. You said that "no one had a whole house DVR solution." No HULU in Western NC? Android apps don't work in Western NC? Many streaming services do have cloud based DVR. All my TV's have the ability to install apps for free or you can buy an Android device for about $30.00 bucks... I know your a TiVo guy, so you will need to pay $69.00 for an TiVo android device. Basically, I could get a whole house DVR solution with NO COST for hardware for ALL my TV's using HULU today.

    You really looking for your local CC to provide a cloud based solution and most don't today. I also would like to see my CC do the same. But my issue is your comments that no one has a whole house dvr solution. Just not a true statement. Multiple options that don't include your TiVo. Ebay it and sign up for one of the cloud services.

    I'm fine with my TiVo for now... But not blind to other options.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  4. Joe3

    Joe3 Active Member

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    " Of course not, do you know how hard it is to use the rotary dail phones at TiVo, let alone get it to turn fast enough to fill out your application? Surely, you ask too much. ;)
     
  5. cwoody222

    cwoody222 Well-Known Member

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    I’ve been a TiVo user since series 1.

    I’ve never cared about transferring programs, even during buying new units. I’ve not once worried about upgrading or replacing my drives.

    I don’t worry about the size of the drive inside and I don’t care about ATSC 3.0.

    I think on forums like this we exaggerate the importance of the more geeky aspects of TiVo.

    Most people just want an easy to use DVR that’s better (and maybe cheaper in the long run) than their cable company offers. Or, the best OTA recorder they can get.
     
    trip1eX likes this.
  6. jonw747

    jonw747 Active Member

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    Yeah, an eager user base can also be kept happy by empowering them to fill in the gaps your team can't justify.

    I guess there's always going to be friction as long as the content creators fundamentally oppose the whole idea of recording let alone copying their content.
     
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  7. jonw747

    jonw747 Active Member

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    Well, speaking for myself, I was happy enough with the ease of use and cost of Verizon's DVR, but when the hard drive started to fail, I decided I just didn't want to be stuck with no way to preserve my recordings. If I couldn't keep what I had, I might as well move to something else.

    So, for instance, when the hard drive on my Roamio Pro started to fail, I was able to clone it to a new and bigger disk.

    Maybe it would be a bigger deal to more people if it was actually easy to do...
     
    mattack likes this.
  8. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    I've had a few good ideas over the years TiVo has screwed up for me. Another one I had was basically a modified version of pyTivo that would allow you to share recordings with other users remotely. Basically the idea was to modify pyTivo to show shares containing the complete My Shows list of some remote TiVo. If you selected a show it would instruct the remote pyTivo to download it to that PC, decrypted and recoded to H.264 to reduce the size, then push it over to the local copy of pyTivo and download it onto your TiVo as if it were a file on your network. Then TiVo released Hydra and removed the whole PC to TiVo feature and I abandoned the idea. No use in spending time and effort developing something like that when the feature it depends on is being phased out and could be turned off at any moment.
     
  9. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

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    Well maybe it's because I'm using the "old" stuff, but at least for me, it still is hands down better the majority of the time.. ESPECIALLY after finding about the hidden quick mode speedup.. (I switch between 1.5, 1.7 and once in a while 1.9 often. but mostly I use 1.9 to watch 'non performance' parts of American Idol or AGT then watch the performance at 1x.. lots of documentary/news I watch at 1.5x, and some at 1.7x)

    Even though I went lifetime, I actually would make one time payments if specific bugs were fixed.. but even as it is, overall, I use my Tivo FAR more than I use any other way to view TV.. (Though when I use other means, I usually switch to Apple TV, since the Tivo provided streaming options, at least in my _old UI_ Premiere 4 and Roamio Pro, take WAY too long to launch AND have nothing even vaguely like the Tivo UI. Even if they were more VCR-like when dealing with streaming, they would be better.)
     
  10. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

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    That's blatant copyright infringement, and is largely what got ReplayTV sued into oblivion.

    Yes I realize there's Pirate Bay and a bajillion other places people can find stuff.. but someone with an actual way to be contacted, in the USA, would very likely be sued in a heartbeat.
     
  11. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    I wasn't going to maintain any sort of public registry. You would have had to have a direct link to someone else's pyTivo to make it work. So basically it would be less like BitTorrent and more like having a VPN into your friend/family's local network. I came up with the idea when I was copying some shows from my TiVo to my Sister's TiVo and had to physically go over there with a laptop to transfer them. I thought.... "this would be so much easier if she could just pull up my TiVos directly and grab whatever shows she wanted".

    But it doesn't really matter at this point as I scrapped the idea.

    I have other things I'd like to do with TiVo too but without the ability to get a proper mind/RPC certificate, and the uncertain future of TiVo To Go, I'm reluctant to put any more effort into it.
     
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  12. jonw747

    jonw747 Active Member

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    Would had been cool.

    Ironic their new product is called the TiVo Stream 4K ... kind of shows what they think of the original "TiVo Stream" and their TiVo app; which would have been a fantastic feature if they could had adapted to network bandwidth even slightly as well as the old Slingbox did.
     
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  13. wizwor

    wizwor Active Member

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    It's certainly something that would have upset Big Entertainment, right? I shared antennas with a guy in New Jersey when the Simple TV DVR was still a thing. He installed a box on his antenna with my credentials and I installed a box on my antenna with his. It worked great. At the time, RSS was planning to launch in the UK and I was hoping to share internationally. I suggested they set up a registry which facilitated the process.
     
  14. ncbill

    ncbill Active Member TCF Club

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    I noted there was no longer a whole house option immediately after pointing out my local cable company charges $25/month per DVR.

    It's clear I was referring to my local cable company.

    My point was for those cable customers who want a DVR buying a Tivo (& Minis) remains cheaper than choosing the cable company's DVR.

    I didn't mention streaming services at all...just what the local cable company offers.
     
  15. jonw747

    jonw747 Active Member

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    I think his point is that a lot of people are bypassing the traditional DVR math, and just cutting the cord or running specific streaming apps that require very little expense beyond some form of broadband. And even the math which makes TiVo out to be a better deal is built on some underlying assumptions that have prevented it from becoming the clear winner.

    In other words, TiVo is becoming a niche of a niche product ... if they can sustain enough revenue hopefully they can keep providing us that guide data and the few services we actually need, and then who cares about Best Buy; except they're being run by bean counters ... so ...
     
  16. ncbill

    ncbill Active Member TCF Club

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    Sure, I should have made it clearer that Tivo still wins in the context of Tivo DVR vs. cable company DVR.
     
  17. Joe3

    Joe3 Active Member

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    Anybody remember, Winamp?

    Like TiVo today, some say the technology became too old and became obsolete, but oh how it was awesome.

    By June 2000, Winamp had 25 million registered users and only a year later it was seen surpassing the 60 million user mark. Winamp was an immediate hit with early adopters who discovered how much better the music sounded at higher and higher bit rates than 128k standard.

    If I recall correctly, the program had color-changing volume slider and a spectrum analyzer and access to an equalizer that alter frequency responses, playlist to help you arrange tracks. The GUI, was fun to use that came with customizing the look and feel of the player through skins and plugins. Oh, and Specifically, Winamp created a light show visuals of sound waves of the music you’re listening to, real fun. The simplicity it had and lack of bloat.

    TiVo was once fun like that. Winamp like TiVo today had mistakenly moved over and played dead over several years ago, as smartphones and wireless network technology advanced, on-demand streaming music services like Spotify started to come into favor as the manufacturing of the false idea that streaming was the Holy Grail of music, today’s streaming services. Most of the public didn't realize it was the money changers in the music machine wanting their total domination back of who get to listen to what, when and how.

    And like TiVo today, even with 40 million songs on tap, there’s a significant gap between what I want to listen to and what is available on streaming at any given time.

    Streaming rights are fluid meaning it is all controlled not by me or you. What is available today might not be there tomorrow and often times isn't because control has been taken out of our hands The hard to get obscure stuff, bit rate quality, gone. Early content from the local music scene, gone. Recordings from local concerts, gone. Albums created by family and friends in bands, gone and even some great artists that never got a record deal, yet put out an album or two, gone– isn’t on streaming.

    There are similarities in the story of Winamp and TiVo that doesn't bode well for our freedom to choose.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
  18. trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

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    it isn't that dire. something like youtube has given me more access to more obscure content than I ever had before. And digital sharing tools allow people to share content easier than before.

    The reality with music before is i had around 200 cds. And had a bunch of cassette tapes before that. I even had a few albums. Otherwise I listened to the radio which really was just a form of "limited they choose for you" or "lowest common denominator" streaming.

    It's hard for me to see how I'm so much worse off today with music streaming. If anything I'm overloaded with the musical options at my fingertips.
     
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  19. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    ReplayTV had something very much like this and a DB was created to share shows via request, called poopli (which still exists for the few RTVs left). I used it many times with RTVs before I got into HD and moved on to Tivos.
     
  20. jonw747

    jonw747 Active Member

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    The new business models are disruptive, but not necessarily profitable; and audiophile/videophile concerns have always been niche. It wouldn't surprise me if there were still thousands? millions? of people paying for HD and watching SD, because they don't understand how to use their equipment.

    Small companies are best at filling niches, they just need to find it and dominate it.

    HdHomeRun jumping on ATSC3 is interesting as it puts them well ahead of pretty much everybody. Those of us who adopt their devices might start adopting some new methods to watch and record TV. We'll just have to see how long it takes to get some quality programming and whether the networks can be bothered to provide something as good or hopefully better than 4K streaming services.
     
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