Looking to upgrade Moca version

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by jgiarrap, Jan 11, 2021.

  1. jgiarrap

    jgiarrap New Member

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    Jan 11, 2021

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    Hello all. Currently I have 2 Tivo's (Roamio Pro & Premiere XL). I have networked my house using the existing coaxial cable by utilizing the Roamio Pro as a Moca bridge.

    I would like to increase the speed of my network by upgrading my Moca version from the 1.1 version of the Roamio Pro Moca bridge to 2.0/2.5 by adding an Actiontec Moca adapter with Moca version 2.0 or 2.5. Upon adding the Moca adapter I would switch the Roamio Pro from a Moca Bridge to being just a Moca client.

    I've added a .jpg of my current network configuration and what I propose to change it to. Will my proposed change work ok or am I missing something? I apologize if this has been discussed previously & I would appreciate anyone's help. Thank you - John
     

    Attached Files:

  2. High Technology

    High Technology Member

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    Yes, I believe what you are doing would work -- you DEFINITELY want to change the TiVo to be a client, so you don't have 2 MOCA networks operating on the same coax.

    I assume you have other MOCA 2.x capable devices downstream that you want the higher speeds on (e.g., another MOCA->Ethernet bridge running computers, a NAS etc.). Other TiVos (other than the Bolts) are MOCA 1.x devices, and don't benefit from higher speeds. If you're just running home theater devices, you're likely not going to see any performance boost.

    For example, in my house I have 4 locations with FiOS routers operating solely as MOCA bridges for my home theater and other devices that don't have MOCA (HT receivers, blu-rays, streaming players like Roku/Apple TV, my printer/VOIP device), and MOCA 1.x is fine for all of them. My host router is MOCA 2.0, and I haven't bothered to upgrade any of the older 1.x bridges since nothing attached to them would benefit from the additional speed.
     
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  3. jgiarrap

    jgiarrap New Member

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    Jan 11, 2021
    Thank you very much for the detailed response. Increased speed throughout my network would be great but I also want to remove my Tivo from being the Moca bridge just in case I ever have an issue with the Roamio Pro. My feeling is that it's easier to address an issue if an Actiontec adapter needs to be replaced rather than the DVR. Due to Covid I've been working from home since March so home network reliability is very important as it is for a lot of people. I don't care if I lose TV service if the Roamio goes down but it would be painful if I also lose my internal network.

    To answer the 2nd part of your message is yes I have a Actiontec 1.1 adapter attached to my home office pc and another Actiontec 1.1 adapter attached to a Tivo Premiere XL in a bedroom. Would be looking to update these to 2.0/2.5 also.

    Is it a good idea for me to replace the Tivo from being the Moca bridge? Secondly - if the Roamio Pro becomes just a Moca client instead of a Moca bridge does it still need an ethernet connection to the router or will all network traffic to the Roamio be all through the coax? Thanks - John
     
  4. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Thoughts...
    • At current prices, a goCoax MoCA 2.5 adapter (WF-803M) would seem to be the best value.
    • The proposed configuration wouldn’t work, as the Roamio Pro would have no network connection — absent an Ethernet connection, and with the MoCA adapter RF pass-through port severely attenuating MoCA signals. (MoCA adapters use internal diplexer filters, rather than a simple splitter, to direct signals, so the adapter’s RF pass-through port severely attenuates signals above 1002 MHz.)
    • Why? Do you have MoCA needs beyond the TiVo setup? (‘Cause MoCA 2.5 won’t do anything for the connection between the Pro and XL.)
     
  5. jgiarrap

    jgiarrap New Member

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    Jan 11, 2021

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    Thank you. I thought I read somewhere that you need ethernet and coax on the Tivo only if it was the Moca bridge. If that is not correct than I can definitely leave it connected to my router via ethernet.

    I have a home office that I work out of (working remotely since March due to Covid) that currently connects to my router via Moca 1.1 adapter. I want to take my Tivo Roamio out of the picture as a moca bridge since if it has a hardware issue I will no longer have a Moca bridge and no internal wired network. Having a dedicated moca adapter as the bridge would be easier to address if it had an issue.

    What do you think? Thanks for your time.
     
  6. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Good call almost regardless of the spec chosen for replacement MoCA bridge. (Our Pro tends towards inconvenient reboots.)

    The Pro could connect as a MoCA client, with its Ethernet port open/unused; however, it would make more sense to disable MoCA on the Pro and network it via its GigE port if all the other MoCA nodes are bumping up to 2.0 or better.
     
  7. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    You remember correctly, but the point being made failed to make a connection.

    The issue with the orig diagram was simply in how it depicts the Pro’s coax connection ... if planning to configure the Pro as MoCA client. You would need to use a 2-way coax splitter to connect the MoCA adapter and Pro, as any MoCA adapter’s RF pass-through port would severely attenuate MoCA signals.

    However, the MoCA adapter RF pass-through would offer slightly less cable TV signal loss, relative to a splitter, if the Pro were to be networked via its GigE port rather than as a MoCA client.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2021
  8. jgiarrap

    jgiarrap New Member

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    Jan 11, 2021
    That is a good idea. If I disable MoCa on the Roamio and just used Ethernet would it still be able to connect to the other Tivo on my network?
     
  9. jgiarrap

    jgiarrap New Member

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    Jan 11, 2021
    Is RF pass-through not an issue when using the Roamio as a Moca bridge? Looking at my network set up do you have a recommended configuration to do what I want to do, i.e. mainly have a Moca adapter as a Moca bridge and convert the Roamio Pro (existing Moca bridge) to Moca client/network client? Thank you very much for your time.
     
  10. sakaike

    sakaike Member

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    Huntington...
    krkaufman is the undisputed expert on this topic, but if it were me, I would make one of 2 alterations to your proposed set-up. I would either adopt krkaufman's suggestion to connect your Roamio Pro to the router directly via Ethernet, or I would instead swap out the 2-way splitter for a 3-way unbalanced MoCA splitter, sending the higher signal to the cable modem, and the 2 more attenuated outputs to the MoCA bridge adapter and the Roamio Pro. Both of these options avoid use of the RF pass-through port. Which option I would choose would depend on where the physical locations of all these devices are, and how easy it would be to hook up one option versus the other.
     
  11. jgiarrap

    jgiarrap New Member

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    Jan 11, 2021
    Thank you. Is there a preferred/more advantageous of the 2 options? The router, cable modem and Roamio Pro are within feet of each other in the same entertainment cabinet. I'm admittedly confused because I read that you would only have the coax and internet connection to the Roamio Pro if it was the Moca bridge. If it's no longer the Moca bridge why would you need both? Am I understanding it correctly that you would need both because of the fact that the Moca adapter’s RF pass-through port severely attenuates signals above 1002 MHz.?
     
  12. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    It isn't applicable for the Roamio Pro as the Roamio Pro has but a single coax port, unlike many MoCA adapters.


    Yes, once you have the replacement MoCA bridge working.


    Yes:
    Re: this suggestion...
    ... I could go either way (pass-through vs splitter), but you can experiment with what happens to the Roamio Pro's TV signal if/when the MoCA adapter's power is lost or cycled and the Pro is connected via the MoCA adapter's pass-through port. If you find the DVR's tuning glitches when the MoCA adapter power is interrupted, you may want to opt for the splitter configuration.

    And, if the splitter approach is taken, you can use a couple separate 2-way splitters to get all 3 devices connected (modem, MoCA adapter and Pro), or heed @sakaike's suggestion and, instead, use a single unbalanced 3-way splitter, for simplicity and to save a bit of signal loss associated, otherwise, with the jumper coax between the two 2-way splitters.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2021
  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    This confusion can sometimes happen when people get very focused on the MoCA/networking side of things and forget that the Roamio Pro needs the coax connection for the TV signal, not just when doing MoCA. (i.e. The Pro needs the coax connection no matter how it's networked.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2021
  14. jgiarrap

    jgiarrap New Member

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    Jan 11, 2021
    Exactly my issue...fixated on the Moca/networking side. So if I leave my proposed schematic as is and just left the ethernet port on the Roamio Pro connected to the router and disabled Moca on Roamio Pro I would be still getting the TV signal to the Roamio via coax cable and internet connectivity to the rest of the network (including other Tivo) via the ethernet cable to the router? My only real issue in the initial proposed schematic was the removal of the ethernet cable from the Roamio to the router? Once Moca is disabled from the Roamio I assume it will use the coax just for TV signal and network connectivity is via the ethernet connection? Thank you VERY much for all the info and your patience.
     
  15. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Exactly correct -- presuming an Ethernet-only network connection for the Pro.

    Add a little yellow arrow b/w the Pro and router, and the schematic is correct ... providing MoCA is disabled in the Roamio Pro.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2021
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  16. jgiarrap

    jgiarrap New Member

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    Jan 11, 2021
    Thank you very much. Much clearer to me. One other question: my current 2way splitter is 1000mhz on my Moca 1.1 network. When I go ahead with my new configuration and upgrade to 2.0/2.1 will I have issues with the 1000mhz splitter and will have to upgrade to a more Moca friendly adapter?
     
  17. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Depends on what you mean by "issues" and "have to." The existing splitters shouldn't prevent a MoCA connection, but may inhibit optimum performance.

    MoCA 1.1 requires just 50 MHz at the lowest end of the MoCA frequency spectrum to function (from 1125-1175 MHz), so a MoCA 1.1 signal won't experience much different attenuation than the higher cable TV/Internet frequencies via a cable TV-rated splitter. However, a MoCA 2.5 network requires up to 10x the spectrum, bonding 5 100 MHz channels, consuming nearly the entire MoCA Extended Band D range (1125-1675 MHz), so it becomes more critical to use splitters with documented (MoCA-friendly) behavior across this range, and ideally optimized for MoCA in terms of lowered output port isolation in the MoCA frequency range.
     

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