List of drives that don't boot under TE4 21.x on Bolt

Discussion in 'TiVo Upgrade Center' started by multiple, Nov 11, 2019.

  1. jonbatlanta

    jonbatlanta New Member

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    Sep 22, 2007
    Burbank, CA

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    Thanks for the response. So, for now, I’ll boot to the startup screen and leave it at that.

    And, Yes, I thought I had put the original drive back in the box or in one other safe spot, but apparently I did not. I will continue to search...

    UPDATE: Just located the original HD.
     
  2. danpritts

    danpritts New Member

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    Dec 15, 2007
    Another non-working drive with TE4:
    Seagate BarraCuda 1TB 2.5".
    PN E27172-501
    Model ST1000LM048
    Amazon B07H28QRKN

    Wish I'd thought to read the forums before I ordered the drive. Sigh. I did find my original 500GB so i'm back up & running on that.
     
  3. xylker

    xylker New Member

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    Jan 16, 2008
    I'm curious if anyone has investigated the "why?"
    I suspect that the WD spinning rust drives use SMR, which seems to be particularly poor for TiVo utilization. However, why are the SSDs non-functional? Although that's (in my opinion) another poor use case with TiVos.

    I am stuck with a 2TB 20SPZX that I purchased last year for the Bolt. :(
     
  4. multiple

    multiple Member

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    Aug 26, 2007
    It appears most drives no longer work except 3.5" drives and select few 2.5" drives. Most of those that have issues are CMR based. Some drives are by the same manufacturer like the WD 2TB drives, where one works and the other does not. Someone tried to dump the drive configuration data from each drive to determine if there was something about the working and non-working drives that could cause such a failure, but nothing much came out of that. @jmbach was looking into it for a while, but I don't think he has made much headway.

    Based on the issues I've seen, before TE4 disabled these drives, a hardware fault causes the SATA port to electrically malfunction, rendering the Bolt non-functional to any drive. That is, before TE4 disabled these drives, during cold boot, restart, or shutdown, something would cause the SATA port to electrically fry. I had this happen to 3 or 4 Bolts soon after the initial TE4 release. I think all of my hardware failures were with SSDs and my rust drives continued to work without issue until TE4 disabled them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
  5. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

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    Nov 5, 2008

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    I think you mean most drives with issues are SMR based, not CMR. Some SMR work, some don't. I have yet to find a CMR that does not work.
     
  6. multiple

    multiple Member

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    Aug 26, 2007
    I expect most of the CMR drives will be 2TB or less nowadays. I didn't have anyone else reply if their drives work other than the 5TB SMR drive, the 2TB WD CMR drive, the 2TB Toshiba drive, and any of the original TiVo drives under TE4.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
  7. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

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    Nov 5, 2008
    If you mean 2.5 drives yes, very few CMR current model drives. Largest I know, current model, is the WD "Red Plus" 1TB (new naming policy for Reds). 3.5 there are still plenty of CMR choices available. But also many SMR so have to make sure you know what you are getting.

    I am looking forward to updates on how the 5TB SMR Seagate holds up for you. Hope a long time ;)
     
  8. multiple

    multiple Member

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    Aug 26, 2007
    Now that I have an Edge, I can confirm the drive issue is in TE4 and also occurs on an Edge.
     
  9. hoyty

    hoyty Member

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    Jan 22, 2003
    Sammamish, WA
    Wow, I may have just done this to my Edge. I didn't read this thread and ordered the Seagate ST2000LM015. Going back to original drive doesn't work either now. How can a drive fry the SATA port? Ugh. Any chance of getting this fixed under warranty or will the cut stickers sink me?
     
  10. hoyty

    hoyty Member

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    Jan 22, 2003
    Sammamish, WA
    Well luckily I didn't break my Edge Antenna it seems. I just wasn't being patient enough with original drive and booting. I can re-confirm that the Seagate ST2000LM015 doesn't work and gets stuck at Starting Up screen. It is interesting that it seems the 5 TB version in this line does work? I will also add that I did have success with the Seagate FireCuda 2TB ST2000LX001. I had it left over as a an external drive I no longer use for Xbox One. Definitely not cheap so probably not the best choice.
     
  11. Dan Mohn

    Dan Mohn New Member

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    Jan 1, 2021
  12. multiple

    multiple Member

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    Aug 26, 2007
    Possible good news. My TE4 Bolt boots with an SSD attached to the external eSATA port. TiVo asked to format the SSD but indicated it was not a supported drive as expected. I'm taking this as a good sign that TE4 is not checking the external drive during the boot sequence that normally hangs the firmware at the startup screen.

    Next step I'll need to pair the internal drive with the external SSD. If this works, I can have a Bolt with 13TB of storage. I think I can also get the SDD to fit inside the case by cutting small notch to feed the external cables attached to the USB port and eSATA port back into the case. So it just might be possible to get up to 13TB of internal storage in a Bolt even with TE4 software.
     
    kpeters59 and WVZR1 like this.
  13. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    Jan 1, 2009
    You should be able to use MFSTools to marry the external drive to the internal drive. My bolt+ is currently set up this way. My Bolt+ is on TE3 and so I have never tried it with TE4. The issue is show to format the external drive. In TE3 you have to limit the added partitions to 2 TB, not sure if TE4 will allow larger partitions on external drives.
     
  14. DavidLB

    DavidLB New Member

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    Feb 14, 2021
    Surveillance or AV drives are always the best to use for writing recordings to as they have firmware that is specifically designed for continuous writings. Desktop drives are designed for random I/O and retries. NAS drives are designed for random I/O and no retries. Surveillance drives are designed for multiple sequential reads and writes of gigabyte+ files. The firmware is quite different between the three drives. Spinning hard drives will potentially allow for infinite writes, with a lifetime of about 4 years based on failure data from Backblaze (Backblaze Hard Drive Stats for 2020). ALL SSDs have a limited number of writes, typically about 100,000 per cell, so the more cells, i.e., the larger the SSD, the longer the lifetime. All modern SSDs do wear-leveling so it will degrade evenly, but continuously writing to the SSD as DVRs do, will kill it faster than in a computer. They're just not very cost effective yet and you would really only see any benefit at bootup time. An AV drive can easily handle simultaneously writing 6 steams while reading another 6.
     
  15. multiple

    multiple Member

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    Aug 26, 2007
    The write requirements of a TiVo is actually pretty small, so long as you set power savings to maximum. These larger SDDs are usually quad level and support only 100 to 200 writes per page. Even so, any SDD about 2TB or larger should last nearly as long as a rust drive in a TiVo given the r/w requirements of the TiVo. An 8TB SSD should last about 4 times longer than a 2TB SSD assuming the same FLASH technology. So, an 8TB SSD drive should easily last as long, if not longer than a rust drive. Even w/o power saving enabled, an 8TB SSD should last as long as a rust drive.

    The main reason why I don't want an external drive is due to aesthetics. I'm willing to pay a bit more for an SSD to get significantly more internal storage. The prices are still high but not as high as some think... you can pick up the 7.68TB Micron 5210 for bit over $500 and the prices are still continuing to drop rapidly.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021

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