Lifetime Pricing Thoughts?

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by filovirus, Aug 26, 2015.

  1. Aug 29, 2015 #61 of 107
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Are you suggesting that TiVo is not making money on the Roamios they are currently selling with PLS for $300? I'm skeptical of that. They may not be making a ton on them but I don't think $300 is a break-even price. It's a difficult thing to estimate, I guess. There's the cost of the hardware itself (not even close to $300, I wouldn't think) but then there's the cost of ongoing software development and support plus TV listings.
     
  2. Aug 29, 2015 #62 of 107
    wizwor

    wizwor Well-Known Member

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    I heard they were not. That they were selling below cost to kill off the DVR+. Remember that their cost has to include service for the life of the DVR plus warranty repairs, returns, etc. $300 only goes so far.
     
  3. Aug 29, 2015 #63 of 107
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Selling out their stock of Roamio OTAs for $300 for a limited time isn't going to kill off the DVR+. Now, if the Bolt Aereo Edition is permanently priced at $300 or $350 including lifetime service, then yes, we may see the DVR+ go away. But if Bolt comes out with pricing like what we saw for Roamio OTA or base model in the past, there will continue to be budget-conscious buyers for the DVR+.
     
  4. Aug 29, 2015 #64 of 107
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    Yet most people spend many, many times that amount by paying a never ending rental fee each month to their cable company for their Set Top Boxes. What's crazy is the amount of money these people pay over several years.
     
  5. Aug 29, 2015 #65 of 107
    HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

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    True dat, brutha! :up:
     
  6. Aug 29, 2015 #66 of 107
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    I bought three Series 3 TiVos in 2006. I eventually sold one but the other two are working great. They have basically been running 24/7/365 since 2006 and have never had any issues. The only time they were not running was when I upgraded the hard drives(They still have the very first 1TB hard available in them. 5 platter Hitachi drives). And when I took them over to my GFs house after I got my launch Premieres.

    She has been using them since then with no issues. So they will be nine years old this December and still going strong.

    I've used several dozen TiVos since 2001 and they have all been rock solid in my use.
     
  7. Aug 30, 2015 #67 of 107
    slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    This would be a funny comment if it wasn't so blatantly wrong. Just look at the crappy state of PSIP data for details, but hey if you like using a DVR like an old-school VHS tape deck with manual recordings more power to ya.
     
  8. Aug 31, 2015 #68 of 107
    trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

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    Nah just annoyed because by the OP. As if Tivo is going to sell a $600 ota dvr next-gen while these upstarts have decent solutions for $300. Or as if none of us want lower prices.

    Or as if we can just pick a price without regard to what's in the machine. Or that lifetime isn't tied to the cost of the hardware.

    IT's $250 on the OTA because the OTA is much cheaper to make than a Plus model. The OTA isn't profitable at $50 after all. $50 is the subsidized price.

    Same sorta thing with the base model. And the $300 base model is a refurb. IT's $400 for a new one with lifetime. IT started at $600 list at launch with the PLSR code. We're a few years into the lifecycle of the Roamio. Prices of Tivos are always cheaper a few years later.


    I was just annoyed by it all. :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2015
  9. Aug 31, 2015 #69 of 107
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    I hear ya. I think the point some folks are making is that TiVo may become more profitable overall (and more likely to survive long-term) if they priced their hardware and/or service lower than they typically have in the past, so that they're making less profit per box but gain more market share (have more boxes in use). Of course, without knowing TiVo's cost structure and current profit margins, it's hard to know just how much lower prices could go and still be reasonable.

    All that said, especially when it comes to the cord cutter market (which TiVo is targeting with the Roamio OTA and upcoming Bolt Aereo Edition), cost is a major factor to success. I suspect a lot of cord cutters would wonder why they should spend $15 a month for TiVo service to record local networks when they can just pay $8 a month for Hulu and stream most of the same content on demand...
     
  10. Aug 31, 2015 #70 of 107
    HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

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    Why drive that nice Corvette to work when that Hyundai Accent can get you there just as easily and costs a ton less? ;)
     
  11. Aug 31, 2015 #71 of 107
    foghorn2

    foghorn2 Well-Known Member

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    And attract the Asian chicks ;)
     
  12. Aug 31, 2015 #72 of 107
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Oh, as someone who has a TiVo, I agree it's a better solution. (I'm not sure it's quite Corvette vs. Hyundai Accent better, but still.) And of course, if you want a premium product, you have to expect to spend more. I just wonder whether there's a substantial percentage of cord-cutters who, like me, see enough value in going the TiVo OTA route to spend the extra $$ required. Cord-cutters are, after all, folks who are likely more budget-conscious about their TV entertainment spending than cable subscribers.

    I have several friends who have cut the cord and others who are considering it. These are middle class people with good paying jobs. None of them have seemed all that interested in my TiVo Roamio OTA when I've told them about it. They're happy enough with their Apple TV or similar streaming device, plus an antenna connected to the TV. I certainly hope TiVo is successful with the upcoming Bolt Aereo Edition but, if they revert to their earlier pricing, they're really going to have their work cut out gaining much of a foothold in the cord-cutter market.
     
  13. Aug 31, 2015 #73 of 107
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    As someone else mentioned in another thread TiVo is not only getting competition from other DVRs they are getting competition from OTT services like Hulu which have basically the same content you can record OTA on demand for $8/mo. Unless you really hate commercials, or have some other reason to really want a DVR, Hulu is probably good enough.
     
  14. Aug 31, 2015 #74 of 107
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Yep. And I recently read a rumor that Hulu may roll out a commercial-free version soon for $12 or $14 per month.

    http://variety.com/2015/digital/news/hulu-may-offer-ad-free-subscription-option-report-1201542362/

    Granted, they don't carry shows from CBS or PBS (which I can record on my TiVo) but, in addition to current plus past seasons of stuff from ABC, NBC, Fox and CW, they also have some cable shows and a growing roster of films now that Epix is switching their output deal from Netflix to Hulu. Add commercial-free Showtime to Hulu for another $9 and you have a pretty decent little package.
     
  15. Aug 31, 2015 #75 of 107
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    I would actually consider paying for a commercial free version of Hulu.
     
  16. Aug 31, 2015 #76 of 107
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    Paying for Hulu versus buying an OTA DVR is an interesting discussion but having used both I can say that comparing the user experience watching OTA TV recorded with a Roamio to trying to use Hulu to watch all the same stuff is like comparing the driving experience of a BMW to a Yugo.

    It is allot more than just dealing with commercials, you also have time delays before you can watch some shows, time limits on availability, & whole networks that are not available. Hulu is a good supplement to a good OTA DVR as it does have content not being broadcast, but Hulu is not a replacement for a good OTA DVR, not at least for the type of people who are buying TiVos.
     
  17. Aug 31, 2015 #77 of 107
    JerryAC

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    The commercials on Hulu are not that bad because they are usually limited to one at a time. I tried a trial of the CBS streaming service and quit watching the first day. They have 3-4 commercials every 15 minutes, most of them repeats of the same. It drove me up the wall. I decided if I really want to watch a CBS program, I will record it and skip through the commercials.

    But then again, I prefer the content on Netflix over Hulu right now, commercials aside.
     
  18. Aug 31, 2015 #78 of 107
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Hmm. I've used both as well and, while I prefer TiVo to Hulu, I don't think the difference is that great. And I could certainly see how some folks would prefer Hulu, especially if they offer an ad-free version for $12. There are trade-offs either way you go.

    Using a TiVo with an OTA antenna, you can record as many shows as your hard drive will hold (which isn't a TON with the 500 GB drive in a Roamio OTA) and keep them as long as you want. Assuming you get good reception, you'll be able to record from all the major broadcast networks. Features like FF, rewind, skip back/forward are MUCH better on a recorded show with TiVo. Plus I can pause and rewind live TV and don't need to wait beyond the initial broadcast to enjoy a show.

    On the other hand, with Hulu, I have to wait until the next day to stream a show from ABC, NBC, Fox or the CW and I don't even have access to shows from CBS or PBS. And I have to sit through ads (although less than half the ads I'd see if I watched the show live OTA). If I want to rewatch a scene, rewinding is a pain because I have to let the stream rebuffer. BUT I also get access to some cable shows. I've been enjoying the current season of The Jim Gaffigan Show from TV Land on Hulu lately. Shows debut on Hulu three weeks after they do on TV Land (which is fine with me). I've also been watching an old Starz series called Party Down on Hulu -- premium cable content for no extra charge! I may watch last year's season one of Fargo (FX) soon. Beyond that, with Hulu, you don't need to worry about setting up things to record. Did you happen to just now discover the show Nashville on ABC and find it interesting? You can binge watch the entire series from the start on Hulu. To do that with a TiVo, you'd need a time machine. Plus, with Hulu, there's no need to fuss with an OTA antenna. A lot of folks have trouble getting one or more of the major networks OTA. With Hulu, as long as you have 4 Mbps or faster internet, you can stream very good quality 720p video. (However, there's no DD 5.1 surround sound, only stereo.)

    So, as I say, trade-offs.
     
  19. Aug 31, 2015 #79 of 107
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    Yes there are +s to Hulu. Issues with OTA reception or streaming issues (excessive buffering etc.) are location specific and certainly can make one more acceptable than the other. For me the lack of CBS, PBS, & local news are of greater importance to me than the additional content the Hulu has is, so if I had to pick one it would be my Roamio. However I can see where some would make a different choice. Of course I also see no reason to pick one over the other. My Roamio is my base, streaming is an add on as I want/need, I turn Hulu on a few months a year, its been on this summer and will end 9/15.
     
  20. Aug 31, 2015 #80 of 107
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, from my perspective as a cord-cutter, the ability to integrate various streaming sources alongside live and recorded TV is the big advantage that TiVo has over other solutions. Long live OnePass!
     

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